Residents met with police and city officials on January 20th about the Jack in the Box
after hours permit request. Photo by David H.
Last Friday afternoon, the Richmond District police station hosted a community meeting about the Jack in the Box restaurant on Geary at 11th Avenue. At tomorrow’s Entertainment Commission meeting, the restaurant will be asking for their after-hours permit to be renewed, allowing them to remain open between the hours of 2am and 6am.
About ten neighbors attended the meeting, along with owners of two local bars – The Hearth and Would You Believe? – that are located just across the street from the restaurant. Others in attendance included new Richmond District station Captain Eric Vintero, two members of the Entertainment Commission, a representative from Jack in the Box, and Supervisor Eric Mar, who led the meeting.
Up for discussion was whether or not Jack in the Box should be permitted to stay open 24 hours. A fight began early on Thanksgiving morning in the restaurant, which then led to a brutal hit-n-run crime a couple of blocks away. After the incident, the city took a closer look at the restaurant and realized it no longer had the proper permits to operate after hours. So since early December, the Jack in the Box has been closed between 2am and 6am.
Neighbors who live nearby say it’s been a great improvement since the restaurant reduced its hours. There’s been less noise and a general sense of feeling safer.
“People have said for years it’s been like an alarm clock at 2 a.m.,” Lee said. “Now we can sleep through the night, and we feel safer to be shopping and walking around. It has transformed our neighborhood immediately around Jack in the Box, and we are here to fight to keep it this way,” resident David Lee told The Examiner.
The Examiner reports that police calls are down. The SFPD has received only 3 calls in the 7 weeks since Jack in the Box reduced their hours. In the months prior, when the restaurant was open 24/7, they were averaging 7 calls a month; a total of 270 calls in 2010. The majority of those occurred between 9pm and 4am.
While many residents are opposed to Jack in the Box being granted an after-hours permit, the SFPD are not. At the meeting, the police said they supported Jack in the Box being open 24 hours a day, with the stipulation that they increase their security.
Last year, the manager at the Jack in the Box worked with the Richmond Police Advisory Board and SAFE to make security improvements to the property, including improved lighting, adding security guards on Thursday through Saturday nights, and trimming overgrown landscaping.
Things seemed to be improving after the security changes, but the Thanksgiving day incident brought a high-powered microscope over the restaurant, one of only two businesses in the Richmond District that is open 24 hours a day.
The other is the Subway sandwich shop (5650 Geary at 21st Avenue) which, as it turns out, also does not have the proper permits to stay open after hours. The city is working to get them in to compliance. At last Friday’s meeting, Clement Street’s Rockit Room was mentioned several times as another source of neighborhood problems, resulting in police calls. Residents claim that so far, the club’s owners have not responded to the offer of a free security survey offer from SAFE, like the one that was provided for Jack in the Box last year.
The real fireworks will come at tomorrow’s meeting of the Entertainment Commission (6:30pm at City Hall, Room 400), when arguments will be heard from both sides about whether or not Jack in the Box should be allowed to operate after hours.
David Lee, a Richmond District resident and business owner, will no doubt present his petition for which he has gathered nearly 1,500 signatures from neighbors, all opposing Jack in the Box extending its hours.
But with the SFPD supporting a 24 hour operation and there being so few in the neighborhood, it’s possible that Jack in the Box could get its permit back.
Which way would you vote? To let Jack in the Box stay open 24 hours, or stay with their reduced hours?
Special thanks to cub reporter David H. for the details and photo from last Friday’s meeting.
Sarah B.
All those people with too much time on their hands.
“The Examiner reports that police calls are down. The SFPD has received only 3 calls in the 7 weeks since Jack in the Box reduced their hours. In the months prior, when the restaurant was open 24/7, they were averaging 7 calls a month; a total of 270 calls in 2010. The majority of those occurred between 9am and 4pm.”
I am not sure how the Examiner report offers up any true statistical data as to the there being fewer police calls. First, it has only been 7 weeks since with the reduced hours, just over a month. This is merely one data plot within many months. Second, prior to the reduction in hours, most of the calls occurred during regular business hours. Thus, a wishful hunch is being made rather than a true correlation as to whether the reduced hours are actually limiting the police calls.
Ah, ha. I just went to the original article. Sarah, there is an error here. The original Examiner article had hours between 9 PM and 4 AM, instead of 9 AM and 4 PM. Makes a big difference in the presentation.
Where does David Lee shop at between 2-6am that having JiTB closed makes it safer? Sooo confusing…..
Thanks, Mel. Typos happen 🙂
Sarah B.
@Mel,
Interesting you would pick up on that. One of the issues that brought up some emotional heat at the meeting was the statistics. What location generates the call, where it ends up, where its reported all seem to revolve around how information is entered in to the city CAD dispatch system. For example the call about the fireman was not attributed to the Jack in the box but the service station. There seemed to be a bit too much emphasis by some parties in the discussion in order to make their points. It really is about safety and quality of life not just the numbers of Police calls for service. Numbers can be made to say many things.
I would like to see the comparison of calls to last year. As the jack n the box is near USF. Since Dec 5 – Jan 11th is finals/winter break I imagine there is a lot less drunk students. Also where the hell is there to shop around there after 2am?
Close the doors early and go home. I’ve had friends, in separate incidents, been followed from Jack-in-the Box and then beaten or mugged. With incidents like this occurring having calls to the police reduced to 3 calls in the 7 weeks from 7 a month are still too many calls.
@ Ron- sorry that breakdown probably does not appear in the call records. The calls as read at the meeting for the Jack 2 year period more of the homeless refuse to leave, fights category. The Copper Penny is open all night and Mel’s opens some days 24/7
The stats the Examiner cited are a little off. I agree with the others who raised questions about the data. A few data points don’t make a strong case. Also, I suspect the bigger problem is the Rockit Room and other bars on Clement St. I’ve heard there’s been lots of trouble at some of those establishments. Perhaps we need a cooling off period, during which time JIB doesn’t operate after hours while it works to install more and better security. And, at the same time, look into the bars in the ‘hood that are probably creating some of the trouble.
I hope Supervisor Mar can work with the community to improve safety everywhere in the Richmond. It’s a great neighborhood in a prime location adjoining two of the wealthiest parts of the City…Sea Cliff and Pacific Heights. We need to come together and find solutions that work for everyone, residents as well as businesses.
Perhaps the stats are a little sketchy and it’s too early too draw any safe conclusions, but it is common sense that closing at 2am would calm things down in the vicinity. What I am most confused about, though, is why the SFPD is so interested in having it open 24hrs.
I read The Examiner article and this one and maybe I missed it, but no one seems to have said why the SFPD has no problem with it. Pro-business leanings over public safety? Permit revenues? Late-night taco cravings?
If not Jack in the Box, it would be somewhere else. It’s arguable that rather than shutting down Jack and leaving the hungry drunks only one remaining 24hour location to eat after hours, there should be more places open 24hours to spread the crowd and avoid the dense collection of drunks at one location.
Again, this is misreported. The petition — and those of us who appeared before the Entertainment Commission — are asking that the Jack in the Box be closed ONLY between 2 a.m. – 4 a.m. Two hours out of 24.
This article does not mention that the owner of the motel across the street was also present at the meeting, along with the owners of The Hearth and Would You Believe? bars, having been invited to attend by Supervisor Mar.
The owners of both The Hearth and the motel said that they WANT the Jack in the Box to close at 2 a.m. and do not want it reopened after two. The owner of the Hearth said the late-night crowd at jack in the Box had been a problem for his property and his business and he has noticed a marked difference since it has been closing at 2 a.m.
The owner of Would You Believe? said that she has a manager and really has not been onsite at her bar in the time since Jack in the Box has been closing at 2 a.m., so could not comment personally, but trusted the owner of The Hearth’s observations. Four other neighbors who live on the street also commented that the closing had caused a very noticeable and positive improvement.
Regarding police statistics, they are only an indication. As was noted at the meeting, the neighbors do NOT call the police each time they are awakened from their sleep at 3 a.m. by shouting or each time they come out in the morning to find their stairs covered with trash, or realize they’ve been urinated on. People do not call the police to say that the crowds outside the location make them feel intimidated and scared — those are not things people call the police for. The SFPD read the list of calls and while a call saying that there was a fight in JITB that was gone by the time the police got there sounds minor — how scared would someone have to have been to call the police?
The incident involving Albert Bartals also began as a fight in Jack in the Box. No one called the police about it — because after the yelling and threats were made, the men involved parted ways and left.
A few minutes later, Bartals was run over by a car and has been in a coma since Thanksgiving.
Did Jack in the Box CAUSE the fight and the coma? Of course not.
If Jack in the Box hadn’t been open, and the two parties involved had had to go a bit furhter to get something to eat — or gone home — it think the odds are reasonable that they would never have crossed paths.
“Opportunity” plays a large role in crime. We have a location in our neighborhood that is known to be a problem after 2 a.m. — and has been known to be a problem for decades.
1700 residents of the Richmond district want it to close form 2 a.m.- 4 a.m. To have even 1/10th make the effort to express their wishes is rare. It will be interesting to see if the Entertainment Commission will ignore the clear wishes 1700 residents and businesspeople in the neighborhood in order to side with a major international corporation.
Dear Josh: Other locations have been — and some are — open after 2 a.m. and do not have these problems: Copper Penny, Big Heart Cafe, Mel’s…
I’m all for having places open to eat late-at-night. (But you can’t force a business to stay open after hours when they don’t want to — and most places don’t have enough customers to make it worthwhile to be open that late — and a lot don’t want to deal with the after-bars crowds because they often do present problems…)
That Jack in the Box has been a trouble spot since I moved to S.F. — in 1979. It seems to be a combination of the location and its very limited space. People mixing it up on the sidewalk or getting too close for another’s comfort inside.
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Big Heart Video Cafe went out of business in late 2010.
At the risk of digressing, it’s great to see the neighborhood get behind an important issue and make a difference. Bravo! Now, how do we harness this energy for other Richmond District problems? For starters I’m thinking of litter and graffiti, the excessive noise and crowds during the concerts in Golden Gate Park, the empty stores on Geary Blvd., and the need for the Alexandria to be renovated. Ideas, anyone?
had on back to your backyard, NIMBYs: late hours approved for Jack in the Box http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/crime/2012/01/jack
@cf That is great news!
Isn’t it ironic that someone who claims to represent the neighborhood doesn’t even know the correct name of a very well known restaurant (Lucky Penny, not Copper Penny), and the fact that another cited example (Big Heart Video Cafe) has been closed since November of 2010? Even Mel’s is only open until 3am on Friday and Saturday.