Back in November, we told you about a new tracking system that SFMTA was installing on Geary to improve the flow of Muni buses.
You may have noticed the Proxim Radio sensors that are perched on Geary stoplights. The GPS devices are designed to keep lights green when a Muni bus is approaching. The system also has the ability to make red lights shorter based on the presence of a bus.
The end goal is to speed up bus service along the corridor.
But the new system is having a strange effect on some drivers, who find themselves braking to a stop at intersections when the light is still green.
The reason? They have become reliant on the pedestrian countdown displays.
“I thought I was seeing things, and started to drive oddly as I would slow down after seeing that the pedestrian countdown ended, but the green light doesn’t change to yellow right away as most lights do, I felt like I was a Student Driver again. :),” reader J. told us in an email.
J. is not alone. We have done the same thing multiple times, looking to the pedestrian countdown as an indicator for when the light will be turning yellow, and then red.
As the countdown reaches 1 or 0, drivers are understandably preparing to stop to avoid running the light. But as they stop, the light remains a full green even though the pedestrian countdown shows a Don’t Walk signal.
The good news is that this is “safe” behavior, but does make for a confusing driving experience (and the potential for getting rear-ended).
Is anyone else experiencing this? Leave a comment to let us know.
Sarah B.
Some feedback from readers:
@richmondsfblog I have seen people do this – very confusing, thanks for the background!
— Byron Philhour (@bphilhour) February 17, 2015
@richmondsfblog that explains it! I've had weird instances of even just walking & the lights change oddly I guess due to traffic.
— Diana (@iheartinsulin38) February 17, 2015
Totally, this is such BS and someone is going to get killed "social engineering" @richmondsfblog
— cfMC FEROX (@cfmceroz) February 17, 2015
@bphilhour @richmondsfblog Funny how it's the safe drivers who are confused.
— Brian L. Grieb (@blgrieb) February 17, 2015
this has been going on for a couple months now and it is surely going to kill someone before long. Thanks City of SF
no kidding, it’s only a matter of time before a big accident occurs, especially with all the a-hole tailgaters around.
Okay, so it’s NOT me! My wife has in fact prodded me a few times asking me why I was slowing down on a green. :p
sfgate had an article in January talking about how drivers adjust their speed based on the countdown timers, and how it can be dangerous (typically by people speeding up to try and make a light). Sadly behind their paywall now:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/nevius/article/Countdown-to-crosswalk-danger-not-safety-6052041.php
But one of the proposed simple solutions was to put hoods over the countdown timers so that only pedestrians could see them. Sounds like something that they might want to consider, and soon.
Also, I’m curious, how can the system make red lights shorter when there’s a bus? The crosswalk timers for crossing Geary are fairly consistent, and I see MANY seniors that need the full countdown to make it. The light always changed when the countdown ended, and it’d be pretty bloody to have a senior in the crosswalk see the countdown jump from 7s to 0 while they’re still in traffic.
I noticed the lights as a pedestrian not while driving. I have been waiting to cross and the light stays green even as the opposite crosswalk counter expires. I always saw a bus near by so I figured it had something to do with Muni.
I guess this counters all the people that just blow through red lights on geary.
It’s probably way too complicated to implement but if there’s actually time left on the crosswalk counter why couldn’t they slow that down just a bit in correspondence with noticing a Muni bus nearby and extending the green; I wouldn’t think that there’s any reason for the counter intervals to be fixed and if the change is small it shouldn’t impinge too much on habituation. After all the counters slow down for me anyway when I’m walking close to the speed of light…
I’ve noticed this a few times and it sorta sucks when you’re on a motorcycle and someone stops at a green light in front of you, because then you’re prone to getting killed by what would be a simple rear-ending for a car.
The lights stay green longer even when the bus is STOPPED in the bus stop, dropping off and picking up passengers. Then it goes red, right when the bus is ready to pull out. It’s kinds crazy.
Totally agree that this is a huge safety issue as you have varying behavior from minute to minute at the same stop light.
My driver’s ed teacher and DMV manual told me to always maintain a safe following distance to help avoid collisions.
But, that requires personal responsibility, so I’ll stick with tailgating. Ain’t no party like a tailgate party!
I think it’s important to note these countdown timers are so common because they greatly reduce pedestrian deaths. If I remember right, the first few at dangerous intersections in SF cut yearly deaths in half.
That said, almost any other adjustment to intersections will cause crashes. It’s fine if we decide faster buses are worth the cost but it should be up for public debate.
Now I have to pay attention 🙁
(I also just commented to say “Hi” to Byron & Brian – Hi!)
Yep. It happened to me on intersection of Geary& Park Presidio blvd. I agree, its very confusing 🙁
If people were to get off their iPhones while driving and simply pay attention to the traffic in front of them, this would not be a problem
Every single day… Geary and Presidio and some other avenues after Presidio blvd as well…I noticed the changes but keep slowing down because I can’t stop starring at the pedestrians count down…it just feels weird crossing the green light while the pedestrian’s count down reaches 0. It is confusing…
We have loads of tourist all year round from all parts of the country driving the normal way and suddenly they come across this off beat system, they will really be deep you know what to our traffic flow……this is not right.
There has always been a problem with consistent drivers on Geary! I hadn’t even noticed the change. There really hasn’t been a change….really? Everyone has been scared, inconsistent, and are still making me crazy without pushing the gas pedal in the Outer Rich! This has been going on for YEARS! Bad drivers all around! You have a gas pedal for a reason!
If you drive a Prius, your mph goes down at least 15mph. Sad and scary. Keep up with traffic, your slow pace will cause so many traffic problems and accidents if not already!
The pedestrian count down timers are the boondoggle of epic economic proportions for the transportation industry.
The traffic engineers who designed them made a large behavioral science mistake. The original idea behind the timers was to let people know WHO WERE ALREADY IN THE CROSSWALK how much time they had left to cross. The idea was they would walk faster to clear the crosswalk.
The technical reason for this is for what is called “turn clearing”. There are cars that need to make left turns at many of those intersections. Drivers cannot do that when people are crossing in front of them. The idea of the transportation planners was to have the pedestrians get clear while leaving some time before the change of the lights for cars to make their left turns.
The problem is human behavior. People on the side walk pay zero attention to the big red hand. All they see if that they have some amount of seconds left to cross. Exactly the opposite of what the planners intended. Most people, 95% or better, step off the curb and head into the crosswalk if there is any amount of time left on “the clock”.
What this does is deny the left turn cars from clearing the intersection BEFORE the light changes. We all know how may cars have gotten t-boned because of this behavior.
Of course the other unintended consequence of this technological blunder is that drivers are paying attention to the count down and not the light.
The problem with all this is that the powers that be cannot admit to the BILLION dollar mistake in adopting the count down technology lest their jobs would be in peril.
In a number of other countries they have red light countdown timers for drivers as well, large and right next to the light.
JD, how is reducing pedestrian deaths a mistake? Even if it causes slightly more accidents with cars, or reduces the time available for cars to finish their turn, aren’t countdown lights a net benefit if far fewer pedestrians are being killed or injured? Inquiring minds want to know…
JD couldnt be more wrong. He’s trying to pretend to be an engineer but is grasping at straws. Pedestrian timers have jack squat to do with turn clearing. Nothing. Zero.
The counters are 100% ADA (disability) related. They exist so that the elderly and handicap, who cross an intersection much slower than the general public, have an idea of when the light is changing. In fact, it is because of ADA that they are now required in all new installations (existing signals are grandfathered in) . Of course the timers benefit ALL pedestrians. Drivers should ONLY look at driving signals, not pedestrian signals
@Megan, Speed limits on city streets do not exceed 35MPH except in extremely limited circumstances. There are plans to reduce speed limits citywide for safety reasons.
Be grateful that you can drive. I had that privilege permanently revoked by a temporarily unskilled driver (with 30+ years of licensed experience) when she mowed me and two friends down on the sidewalk while we were walking to elementary school. I received permanent vision damage while my friends received funerals.
this has been the case on mission street for several years now. you’ll get used to it… where you previously just looked a the countdown, you need to now look at the countdown and scan for a bus.
Only an idiot would rely on the pedestrian signal and ignore the motorist signal.
But to do it, find it confusing, then continue doing it anyway…well that takes a special breed.
Not to mention that many people think it’s OK to step into the crosswalk as long as there is any time on the clock.