“When we first started, we were a couple of grease-balls, a car and a sandwich,” Jimmy O’Keefe said when he described the first ever “Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic” that he organized in Golden Gate Park in 1988. It was just him and a few friends, parked on the road next to Lindley Meadow.
Jimmy was a SF Rec & Park gardener at the time, and in his own words, said his “drug of choice was junk cars”. So he and a few friends celebrated his 41st birthday by celebrating their vintage cars.
That was the beginning of an October tradition of Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic in Golden Gate Park’s Speedway Meadow. Every year, hundreds of vintage car owners would gather to show off their gleaming rides, share car stories, and make friends.
Datsuns would be next to Ford Model A’s, and souped up, hot rods would park alongside ’56 Chevy Bel-Airs. CEO’s parked next to tradesmen. It was a melting pot of old cars, and people. And it was very San Francisco.
Since it’s inception in 1988, the picnic raised tens of thousands of dollars from car owner’s exhibit fees to benefit developmentally disabled children at city organizations like The Janet Pomeroy Center and The Potrero Hill Neighborhood House.
The picnic was such a cherished tradition that the Board of Supervisors presented Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic with a Certificate of Honor in 2006 in celebration of their 18th year.
At center, picnic founder Jimmy O’Keefe
But just recently, O’Keefe announced on the event website that 2013 was the last year for the picnic. “We have decided to retire,” the website says.
We were saddened to hear the news of this longstanding tradition closing down, but weren’t surprised. The picnic’s organizers – including Jimmy’s daughter Jamie and a team of lawyers – have been fighting a 5 year battle with SF Rec & Park over skyrocketing permit fees that in the end, forced the event to shut down altogether.
When the picnic first started in 1988, Jimmy says permit fees to use Speedway Meadow for the day were reasonable; by 2008 it was at $1,650. The permit fee had increased slightly over the years but the event still managed to raise around $10,000 annually for developmentally disabled children, thanks in large part to a 20 year long sponsorship by Thrasher Magazine and one of its founders, Fausto Vitello.
But by 2009, the tides had shifted. New leadership was at the helm of SF Rec & Park and there was a renewed thirst for revenue to keep the department afloat and in the black. Contracts and vendors were re-evaluated, and events like Outside Lands were introduced to Golden Gate Park as a way to drive revenue, as much as $1 million per year.
Suddenly, an event like Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic looked like an old relic that didn’t fit in with the new SF Rec & Park mandate to drive revenue.
To make their point, Rec & Park raised the permit fee for Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic to $8,300 in 2009, a 500% increase from the year before. Still, the picnic took place on Speedway Meadow even though the proceeds for charity were significantly reduced.
Despite Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic complying with the new permit fees, the relationship between the picnic and Rec & Park continued to deteriorate.
In 2010, Rec & Park denied the picnic’s event permit, citing concerns over damage that Speedway Meadow would sustain from the event’s cars being parked on it for the day.
This was a puzzling new concern at the time, especially since Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic had already been going on for 21 years.
Jimmy had also just retired in 2007 from his job as a Rec & Park gardener in Golden Gate Park. Supporters argued he was more than qualified to take precautions with the Speedway Meadow lawn at the event. And when compared to the abuse Speedway Meadow had taken since Outside Lands began in 2008, it was a little ironic that Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic was being singled out for causing undue wear and tear on the park.
Jimmy, his family, and a team of pro-bono lawyers fought the permit denial in 2010. At the Rec & Park Commission hearing that February, nearly 50 supporters came to speak on behalf of the picnic, calling for its continuation.
“Jimmy’s is a San Franciso institution like the cable cars. God bless Jimmy!” one supporter testified.
After some heel dragging, Rec & Park issued the 2010 permit and the picnic went on as planned. But their permit fee was raised once again – to $9,000. At that rate, the picnic was barely breaking even and the proceeds for charity were down to a few hundred dollars. What used to cost each car owner $10 to exhibit was now up to $40.
The bleeding didn’t stop there. In 2011, the permit fees were jacked up 62% to $14,646. Then to $15,114 in 2012, and finally to just over $17,000 in 2013. Between 2008 and 2013, the total increase was just over 1000%.
“We got beat up,” Jimmy said when asked about the negotiations with Rec & Park.
But what hurt Jimmy the most during the battle was the city’s claim, stated in letters to the picnic and its organizers, that the picnic did not “provide cultural and recreational benefits to the city and its residents.”
‘We’re losing the identity of San Francisco,” Jimmy said when we talked to him about the picnic’s demise. “It was one of the few blue collar, working class family events left in San Francisco.”
Jimmy would know. He’s a 4th generation San Franciscan whose lineage goes back to the 1870s. After attending Lincoln High School, he served in the Navy in Vietnam from 1966 to 1968. After returning home, he studied horticulture at City College and began his career as a city gardener.
Jimmy’s three children all live and work in the city. Daughter Jamie, who took over organizing the picnic in recent years, is a museum professional and budding San Francisco historian. His other daughter Candace is a teacher and his son Kohl is a police officer.
Jimmy’s daughter, Jamie at a past picnic
“The picnic was never about me, it was about the kids in wheelchairs and a relaxed place where people could enjoy their cars and each other,” Jimmy said. “It was their picnic.”
Jimmy says others have encouraged him to find an alternate location to keep the tradition going, but he says it just wouldn’t be as fun, and that without the lawn and park setting, it would lose that picnic feel.
“I am really sad about it ending,” Jimmy said. “But I’m letting it go.” When he turns 67 this October, it will be bittersweet to celebrate without the picnic.
“We want to thank everyone who has been a part of the Picnic over the years, those who have helped make it happen, who helped save it, our sponsors and donors, and those who attended. Thank you for years of incredible cars, excellent food, and fantastic times with friends and family,” the website said.
We’re sad to see this San Francisco tradition come to an end. Thanks to Jimmy, his family, and all of the organizers throughout the years who brought this fun, unique event to Golden Gate Park that was enjoyed by many San Franciscans from all walks of life. We will miss it.
Sarah B.
How about require the 4/20 people to get a permit?
http://www.sfexaminer.com/sanfrancisco/police-officials-warn-of-420-crackdown/Content?oid=2771998
Shame on the SF Rec and Park Dept !! What a bunch of moneygrubbing assholes !! – jacking up the fees so high and complaining what the event does to the lawn for a day….. Do they complain about the damage Outside Lands and Hardly Strictly does over a 3 day period ??!! Another example of how they city tries to “nickel and dime” us to death, and take advantage where ever they can. Sorry to hear the charities will no longer be receiving Jimmys’ help
What a disgrace. A wonderful wholesome family event for folks from all parts of the city and the bay area AND the proceeds went to charity. Park and Rec should be ashamed of themselves!!! No words, really, for how disgusted I feel reading this story.
Let’s face it — anything having to do with cars is “evil” these days in SF. Very sorry to hear about the end of this event.
This makes me sad. I don’t think it really has anything to do with discriminating against cars as such, rather more and more the rec and park dept just want to deal with big money events.
On the other hand, I wonder how much oil leaks on to the grass from those old engines?
Ironically, the huge wages and pension earned by Jimmy, a Park & Rec. gardener, have contributed to the need for Park and Rec to jack up fees. Just sayin…..
I have to chime in on what a shame to lose such a nice gathering of vehicle lovers! I attend many shows & gatherings in the Bay Area and the rest of the West Coast and I must say that Jimmy’s combined the most diverse group of owners, builders and auto enthusiats anywhere. I have a classic Austin Mini and a few of us have attended the last few years. We all really like the people at Jiimmy’s from ’55 Chevy Gassers, to early Rolls Royces and Bentleys, beautiful late 40s sedans, muscle cars, custom trucks, you name it. The SFFD would roll out their restored fire engine and everyone BBQ’d and picnicked around the grounds. Just a super special time.
In your article you mentioned that it all started with just a few friends meeting in the park and parking along the road for an impromptu picnic…I think that is what we should return to…pick a date and all of us who loved Jimmy’s picnic, show up in the park with your friends and family and let’s enjoy ourselves, kind of like one of the Cars & Coffee events that happen all over the Bay Area now. If we all endeavor to clean up after ousrselves when we’re done with our picnic, I can’t see that it would hurt anyone.
I would venture to say we could stretch our cars from the Speedway Meadows to the Great Highway all in the name of reconnecting with old and meeting new friends!
This totally sucks. The only real classic car show and gathering this City really enjoys. This City and it’s Supes are really starting to piss me off. They should be encouraging these type of free family events – not suffocating them. And we wonder why everyone is complaining about gentrification and a loss of that community vibe. Give us an opportunity to get out and meet our neighbors with similar interests.
And to the previous post, I agree… there will be no such suffocation of 10’s of thousands that create havoc and mess of the park on 4/20.
Well, Eric Marr & Peter L., what are you going to do about this? The Outside Lands destroying public and private (I can’t tell you how many people who live near the GGP has had their sidewalks strewn with junk and vomit every time those concerts appear) property is OK but a non-profit event isn’t?
So how does Kanye West aka Mr. Kartrashian contribute to our cultural needs? There should be a small fee for non-profit events like this. I don’t know why Parks & Rec would charge them the same amount that they would to a for profit company.
Shameful.
@sfresident If Outside Lands and 4/20 were handing out Happy Meals or had Batkid involved eric mar would be writing some kind of amendment/tweet against ’em….
Hans, the gardeners in GGP make a quarter of the salary of the Park and Rec. General Manager (Gingsberg) and far less than the woman who issues the permits for Park and Rec.! Get your facts straight….just sayin’ ….
Looking forward to Mr. Mars (assistant) response to this………. come on Mr. Mar… show you actually are aware of your district!!!
Just remember when you vote “yes” on the Soda Tax you are voting for a lot of money to go to the guys (and come on it’s all guys) who run SF Parks and Rec. Guess how much will be used to go to big pay raises and to continue the reign of terror at Parks and Rec? A LOT!
Boooooo for Rec & Park. They should be like Prop 13, since it has been 21 years, that no more than 10% fee increase! Pomeroy Center is as old as the Jimmy’s Old Picnic. This center depends on outside funding to stay alive for the developmentally disabled. The connection itself is cultural and represents SF. That center serves all the fragile and severely disabled of SF citizens! Those dumbnuts in Rec & Park. I’m calling them dumbnuts from now on. Money grabbing SF politicians who care less for the indigent and SF citizens!
Candice, how are my facts wrong?
I merely suggested that park and Rec employees like jimmy get paid a lot of money (including pensions) and this is one of the reasons that park and rec has to raise revenue. I have no doubt that park and rec executives make way too much $$$ also, and the woman who issues the permits probably makes way too much $$$ as well. Your argument appears to be that since these management types are making more, it must be fine to pay everybody a lot. Since you apparently have your facts straight, Why don’t you advise everybody of where we can view the salaries of park and rec employees so we can shine some light on the whole system?
I doubt Mr. Mar or his minions will be showing themselves in this post. What a real shame this event is gone.
Hans you are a douche bag of the highest order.
Hans,
First, in San Francisco it is called “The Recreation and Park Department” or Rec & Park for short. Second, something else you neglected to do was support your own argument. If you make an accusation, you’d better have the info to back it up – that burden is not on anyone else but you.
Third, you are seriously missing point, even if your claim were true!
You’re wrong because you don’t know what rec and park employees make, Hans. You’re making an assumption which is making you sound like an ass.
At this point Rec and Park is little more than shake-down artist. They should hire the crew from The Sopranos
Ocean Beach is part of the GGNRA, maybe do it in the parking lot. Not quite the same. But the GGNRA also covers the Presidio (parade grounds) and Crissy Field. Just sayin’.
I usually support public servants because their work is often taken-for-granted. I’m making an exception for this Park and Recs crowd. What they have permitted to happen to GGPark with these giant, souless, money-grubbing venues, and what they seem to be planning (the skate board park) seem way more about THEM, than about maintaining a vernacular balance of parks-based recreation throughout the city. Disappointing, to say the least.
@Hans It’s not the Park and Rec everyday workers that deserve ire; it’s the leadership – for setting the tone.
Also, it gets REALLY old hearing people slam hard-working middle and lower-middle-rank public service employees about their pensions. I’m not a public employee and have no relatives in that sphere, but those people WORK HARD for their money, often taking home less than folks in the private sphere.
Another thing: bashing unions wholesale is IGNORANT! Ronald Reagan, arguably one of the worst POTUS in the 20th century started the vilification of unions; he managed to get unions busted; he started that trend. Disgraceful. People have lost pensions; workers now have no safety net. And corporations get richer.
The irony is that a lot of people who USED to have union protection in the private sector have been “turned” by ignorant rhetoric about how unions are harmful. What a crock! Wake up and get a clue!
Unions gave us the 8 hour day; stopped child labor; stopped beatings on the job; angled for living wages; sought after safe working conditions. Union members DIED to gain your sorry butt those rights. Show some respect and stop vilifying people like the guy who is holding the car show to help a charity.
Something stinks in SF these days.
A Park and Rec Haiku:
Money money mon
Ey money money mon
Ey soul-less money
BTW, here is a link to the Park and Rec picnic fee schedule page: http://sfrecpark.org/wp-content/uploads/Picnic-Impact-Fees.pdf
As it is a non-profit, even given its several hundred participants, how is this not just a few hundred dollars? Granted, they should have to post a bond for potential damage to the grounds (in the event that the grass is extremely soft some year and the cars rut the grounds), but I’ve been to the picnic for years, the drivers are very respectful, and I’ve never seen any significant damage and not more than other large picnic events.
Why is this not simply subject to the same costs as any other non–profit group?
This is another example of the draconian new Park & Rec system. As a third generation GG Park gardener I saw the beginnings of a new misguided regime, while working there. The beginnings go back to certain carpet bagging politicians moving into power, and naming there allies as directors. When you have individuals with absolutely NO HISTORY of our city moving in, this is what occurs. We are at fault for allowing this to happen. We used to have ” The City that knows how”, as our motto. This was even evidenced on the back of City Trucks. The motto today would probably best be described as the city the doesn’t care….
Sure, let a bazzilionnaire like Warren Hellman have his little bluegrass festival with half a million guests, most from out of town. But ordinary SF folks enjoy themselves and see great American industry on display? Not a chance.
I’m fine with Hardly Strictly. Hard to argue against free, world-class music in the best park in the world. But I agree that all sizes of events should be reasonably accommodated. It’s ultimately a park for the people, any people.
PS Probably bad mojo to speak ill of the dead. Just sayin’.
This is a travesty! That picnic brought so much pleasure to those that attended. It is a rich part of American and San Francisco History that should not be lost. It seems that the most beloved, fun things about San Francisco are on the Auction Block.
Jimmy lives down the street from me and I have talked to him a number of times. I know the last few years have truly been a bitter fight. I am not surprised he and his family finally threw in the towel. Ironically, the location of the picnic was the original race track in the late 1800s (albeit carriage and horses and bicycles). So, such a vehicle-related event hints back to the history of GG Park.
Although I am not a car aficionado, a conversation with Jimmy is always entertainment enough. I am saddened that he finally had to surrender to the oligarchy that is Rec & Parks.
Part of the charm of San Francisco was its wacky people– in addition to the natural beauty. Alot of the personal charm has gotten squashed out by tons of beauracry (sp?). Just not the same place any more– like 25 years ago. Really– To shut down something that was fun and a fundraiser and a tradition?
SF has been invaded by money hungry brats , humorless , culture-less , fake hipsters . Jimmy’s picnic was one of the best events in GG park . I always got a kick out of it . I have 1000’s of photos that I took over the years of very , very interesting cars and smiling faces . Re-naming Speedway Meadows was a slap . Hellman – lousy banjo player , billionaire ….left a mountain of loot guaranteeing the grass will be wrecked for decades to come . Outside lands = 100 dollar tickets , large area closed off to the public , alcohol sales ( against city ordinance ) , women beaten and raped . Jimmies was not even allowed to sell those super cool t-shirts ???? SF is run by people who are not from here …who , frankly do not get it . Pathetic !
Politicians and others that aren’t for the City of San Francisco
MOVE OUT…
ALL the respect to JIMMY and family. Thank you,
we want the old Park and Rec back.
I am sad to learn that Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic is no more – I hope there is a way to bring them back. perhaps Park and Rec plus Jimmy’s representatives would be open to mediation? Might there be another location the Picnic is open to? I had wonderful times at the Picnic and learned a lot about cars while gabbing with the owners.
It figures. San Francisco isn’t good for doing anything there anymore. High fees for everything. Tv shows, filming movies, other things and now this. Too many activist, blood sucking politicians, supervisors, department heads, you name it. Tourism is the only thing this city is good or but how many tourists return after experiencing the high and unreasonable costs of this ruined city.
It figures. San Francisco isn’t good for doing anything there anymore. High fees for everything. TV shows, filming movies, other things and now this. Too many activist, blood sucking politicians, supervisors, department heads, you name it. Tourism is the only thing this city is good for but how many tourists will return after experiencing the high and unreasonable costs, and the idiotic politics of this ruined city.
Rec & Park fees started escalating (small meeting room rental at Hall of Flowers going from $10/hour to more than $100/hour unless renting party member of City Family) during Willie’s term as Mayor. This term also gave us the commencement of public-private partnerships (GGP parking garage accounting scandal anyone?), the transfer of ambulances to SFFD and the removal of parking enforcement from SFPD and Muni from DPW to create SFMTA. Simultaneously many basic service department budgets were gutted (street lights, street paving, DPW, etc.) while Health and Social Services exponentially expanded. Fees went even higher under Newsom and have shown no sign of ever slowing down as all moneys must be collected in order to fund City Family wages and pensions and to provide an ever-expanding menu of free services to the “less fortunate”.
@jay walker
Jay, Maybe you could put those photos up on a blog, or upload them into flikr
https://www.flickr.com/
Of course, you may not want to take that on, but it would sure be a nice cache of memories.
I’m sorry, Jimmy, that the city you and your family have lived in and given so generously to has slapped you in the face. Sorry for those of us who enjoyed the event, or were glad it was there for those who did attend it. This was a free event for all, just a great time without the crap that goes on during events like the 3-day Outside Lands concerts thanks to palm-greased politics, crime, and the complete disregard for residents by people who don’t even live here. It would be great if Jimmy’s could find another spot in the park. As expected, Rec and Park is run by greedy, heartless SOBs, and Eric Mar is silent. Silent.
It really is a shame that there will not be another Jimmy’s. We have been taking cars to the event since the 1990’s. It has always been one of our favorite events.
What people don’t generally understand is that it is not only a car show. It is also a history lesson, a child inspirational event, and a city wide reunion.
We often spend the entire day with one of us at out car. We talk to the several thousand people who walk into the park just to see the show. We talk with them not only about the car but the history surrounding the car. Why it was built, what was going on in the county at the time, and the like. In short, the car as a part of a rolling living history museum.
We always allow well behaved and supervised children sit in the car. We like to get them inspired. We always leave them with the tag line that if they study hard, they to can have the big people toys when they grow up. No doubt some have.
We are transplants to San Francisco, although, I did spend a few summers in the Mission during the late 1960’s, as a child as my father worked on the waterfront. Jimmy’s was a defacto city wide high school class reunion. Sitting around cooking and eating with our friends we heard stories and tall tails of growing up in San Francisco. Although we were not raised here, it gave us insights into those who did.
Jimmy’s was a San Francisco Melting pot.
I spent some time at City Hall a few years back during the permit war over Jimmy’s. It was apparent to anyone with 1/2 a brain that the Recreation and Park Department wanted the event gone. They used every Red Herring they could think of. If one did not seem to work then they would shift to another.
The issue of the cars hurting the field was nothing more that a Red Herring. After they brought it up at the first meeting, I called some old school friends from the University of California at Davis, Collage of Agriculture. They and some reference from other Land Grant Universities around the USA listened to what I told them that the Recreation and Park Department was saying about hurting the field. They laughed.
The Recreation and Park Department’s point man on the assault sat in front of the park board and waved a report from the Federal Government. That report was on compression issues with events at the National Mall in DC. The thing that made the Professors laugh was that the Recreation and Park Department was stupid enough to believe that a grass field on soil that was a swamp with its heavy organic matter in any way resembled a grass field that was built on sand.
The two fields are as different as night and day. Organic soil will compact. Sand will not. The professors also did some back of the envelope calculations and they figured that thousands of people jumping up and down (live load) to music for three days does much more damage to the soil that 12 hours of cars dead load sitting on the field.
We let it be know though back channels to the Recreation and Park Department board that we were going to push the Recreation and Park Department to set a compression standard for GG Park grass. That after every large event a 3rd party geo-technical firm was to sample the fields for compaction. If any event was over the threshold that event had to stop. Basically, equal treatment and equal enforcement for all events.
Well, funny thing happened. The noise from the Recreation and Park Department about soil compaction stopped.
I gone over all this information so people can understand that the destruction of Jimmy’s was a well orchestrated affair. Since they knew they could not stop it on the grounds that the picnic was hurting the field, they just decided to price it out of existence. Sure it would take a little longer, but they know that if they squeezed the picnic every year it would sooner or later end.
The picnic has held one of the best date slots on the best event lawn for a long time. As we all know we only get a month or so of somewhat predictable great weather in the fall for events in GGP. Make no bones about it, the Recreation and Park Department wants that weekend free so that they can find another deep pocket to sell it to. It is all about the current Recreation and Park Department vision of adding GG Park to “Amusement Park San Francisco” which unfortunately does not include the rank and file people of The City.
Jimmy’s will be missed.
I’m not surprised to read this, considering how the current GGP powers that be are the ones who destroyed the original little fairy door.
Truly heavy sigh.
The charity needs to sue the City.
“the picnic did not “provide cultural and recreational benefits to the city and its residents.” Really? Raising money for developmentally disabled children sounds like the very definition of a unselfish benefit to the most vulnerable of our once great city. Sad days indeed.
Thanks for the memories Jimmy!!
@JD JD, thanks for the history lesson. I’ve been wading into the Recreation and Park Department bureaucracy recently; it’s been interesting. I’m truly sorry to see yet another well-established vernacular event get killed off.
Jimmy’s car show was an event that scaled nicely with GGPark environs, especially compared to some of the large venues (like Outside Lands). I walked into the park last year during outside lands and got the distinct feeling that the park was being trampled and overrun by shoehorning in large music acts that would have been far more well-received in a large open field event. We do have open space on San Francisco – not much, but there are places other than GGPark where venues like Outside Lands could take place. What about the various stadiums and other venues that would be far more appropriate for events like this?
I too am saddened by the end of a long-running event that was unique to San Francisco and brought fun and community to thousands over the years. It is my understanding that the Recreation Department had a good working relationship with the organizers of the event and thought that they were taking very responsible steps in regards to their planning and management of the picnic. Apparently, after key volunteers stepped down there was no longer an ability to continue the event.
It is important, however, to bear in mind that, as with any event that brings large numbers of attendees to Golden Gate Park, it had impacts that needed to be mitigated in the form of fees that pay for staffing and maintenance.
To compare Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic to large-scale events such as Outside Lands and Hardly Strictly Bluegrass is an apples to oranges comparison that fails to take into account the much larger mitigation fees and other measures that are imposed on the promoters of these larger events.
According to Dana Ketcham from Rec Park, “Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic is considered to be a Special Event not a picnic under the Department’s standards. The Department’s website explains when an event is considered a Special Event and Jimmy’s falls under that standard.”
She goes on, “The fees for Jimmy’s were set in 2010 after much discussion between the Recreation and Parks Department and representatives of Jimmy’s. The fees consist of the Park Code Special Event fee for Hellman Hollow (in 2013 that was $9901.12) plus a Park Impact fee of $8 per vehicle (to cover rehabilitation to the turf needed due to the impact of vehicles on the grass), and costs for SF Rec and Park’s park patrol and gardeners who worked overtime to assist the event. The fees were determined after discussion.
Since 2010, the fee structure has not changed. There were increases due to Park Code mandated cost of living increases (the Special Event fee went from $9000 to $9900.12), the vehicle fee increased because there were more vehicles and the staff fee increased by about $1000 over four years due to the need to have additional staff to support the event.
There is some misunderstanding about why the event is not returning. For the past four years two wonderful volunteers worked to help make this picnic happen. The Department has been told that they decided that they did not want to do it any longer and the board decided not to continue after their departure.”
I have always been supportive of community based organizations and events in the District and have worked diligently to fight for an affordable city for our low and moderate-income residents. The end of Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic is lamentable but it is also unfair to put the blame on Rec Park when it is treating this event in the same way it would treat any other event of similar scale and impact.
Please feel free to contact me at eric.l.mar@sfgov.org or (415) 554-7410.
It’s difficult to square Supervisor Mar’s math with the math in the article, and his argument that Rec and Park treated this no differently than other events doesn’t seem to jibe with Rec and Park’s past attempts to get rid of the event by simply denying the necessary permits. An increase in the number of vehicles doesn’t impact a per vehicle fee. It would have been helpful if he had given a complete explanation for the difference between the $17,000 demanded by Rec and Park and the $9900 special event fee. It seems that Rec and Park arbitrarily jacked the staff fees through the roof to get beyond the mandated Park Code fees, although without a complete breakdown it’s difficult to know for sure. The per vehicle fee already accounts for the minimal wear on the grass (obviously it’s paying for the gardeners’ additional work, not the grass itself), and Rec and Park never had any staff at the event. What’s lamentable is that our supervisor didn’t really fight for a great and popular event in our neighborhood, and instead went into damage control mode on behalf of Rec and Park. It’s pretty clear Rec and Park wanted the event gone, and if they were more honest about their reasons, maybe some kind of compromise on the date could have been worked out, and our neighborhood would still have the event.
Well said Burke.
As a follow up, here is Rec and Park’s definition of “Special Event”:
WHAT IS A SPECIAL EVENT?
Any event doing any of the following is considered a special event:
Amplified sound
Selling food, alcohol or merchandise
Selling Tickets
Advertising that it is open to the public
Requiring special set ups of stages, tents, barricades, fences or other items
It’s hard to see how Jimmy’s fit into this category, since they didn’t do any meaningful advertising- certainly nothing beyond what other nonprofits do to get word of their events out. Maybe they had some flyers, but I don’t recall for sure. I knew about it through word of mouth.
When we met with Jimmy, he gave us the budget breakdown from the last picnic in 2013:
$17,003 – Permit fee for Rec & Park
$1545 – event insurance
$3521.22 – Park Police to staff the event
$500 – Rec & Park application fee
$200.04 – SFPD
$602.38 – portapotties
And some additional fee for Rec & Park gardener foreman pay but I missed that number.
Sarah B.
@Burke – Rec & Park is claiming that the ‘Selling Tickets’ part of the Special Event description applies to Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic, hence they are subject to the fee. The people who show their cars buy a ticket, which really is their donation, to display their car at the event. Anyone can attend the event for free though.
While I appreciate Mar copying and pasting Rec & Park’s reply, it dodges the real issue here which is that a 20+ year old event, that was once given a proclamation by his very own BOS, was squeezed out of having their event in Golden Gate Park due to escalating permit fees. And as you pointed out, Burke, they tried once to shut it down by flat out denying their permit. That didn’t work so they just kept raising the price until it just became too rich to make the effort worthwhile.
And for the record, Mar was never really in support of the picnic, so I have a hard time believing he’s really sad to see it go (though it would be pretty shocking to hear him come out against Rec & Park). When they were denied their permit in 2010, Mar was quoted as being concerned about the damage that the picnic’s cars caused to Speedway Meadow, echoing Rec & Park’s flimsy justification.
Sarah B.
I’m sure there is a faction within Rec and Park that think cars don’t belong in the park on principal, though obviously they drive trucks through the park all the time. Obviously they lost that argument back in 2010, though for them any excuse would do. The above theory about the October date having value to Rec and Park probably has a lot of validity as to the attitudes of higher-ups in Rec and Park. Converting to a voluntary donation would eliminate Rec and Park’s current flimsy excuse and drop the basic permit fee from $9900 to a few hundred. They could still impose impact fees, I would think.
@Eric Mar- If you end the sweet deals with the big concerts and the city got more than a few pennies in comparison to what promoters make, perhaps Jimmy would not have had the squeeze put on. I found the party line response of everyone must pay a fair share insulting bullshit. Google Revenue q1 2014 13.4 BILLION they are paying 1$ per bus. As for all the rest why bother city hall lost its ears long ago. I stand by my statement at the BOS hearing. God Bless Jimmy and the picnic for everything they have done for the city. Mr Mar it would not hurt for you to show some gratitude as well. Oh I forgot you are busy fighting for the low and moderate income by passing a soda tax while WAITING FOR THE ALEXANDRIA TO ROT AND DOING NOTHING AGAIN IN THE NAME OF ENTERPRISE BETWEEN PRIVATE PARTIES. There are three turd piles spray painted on the theatre, they have been there a month. I mistook the spray painting for vandalism its really your rating.
What are the mitigation fees for Outside Lands? I would love to see what they are. Are they available? I would also like to see an opportunity cost analysis showing just how much revenue OL brings to this city.
For instance, when outside Lands is going on, many people (thousands?) who would otherwise use GGParrk, and our city’s amenities, don’t come to GGPark. It Rec & Parks taking these oppotunity costs into hand when it runs its “benefit” numbers. Many people (not sure how many) LEAVE TOWN when OL is going on. What does their absence cost the city? What about prep time a,d park repair time before and after OL? How many people who would come out to use GGPark, don’t? What about vandalism to GGPark during the event? (there is plenty). How much does that cost? How about long term damage to turf (DEFINITELY an issue). What are the long term costs?
We won’t see this kind of analysis because R&P is following the upfront money, and not reallydoing its homework re: opportunity costs. Currently, everyone has gotten into the habit of thinking that OL generates money. Really? Show me!
Mr Mar, please get your facts straight. Yes, two of our main volunteers for the past three years resigned. But the picnic could of very easily gone on without their participation as it did the first 22years. Our board did leave all at once but we had a great many volunteers waiting to fill in. When Dennis Kern and Dana Ketcham came into the Rec and Park Department they wanted the permit department not to issue a permit for the picnic. It was classified as a picnic not a special event at the hearing before the Park Commission. It has always been Jimmy’s Old Car PICNIC not special event. Mr Mar you have NEVER supported the picnic. The picnic had been co run by the Rec and Park and Thrasher Magazine for many years with no problems with permit or high fees. All the money that the picnic brought in went to the Rec and Park’s Handicap program. We will miss the picnic but City personalities and politics got in the way. Thank you to all who have always supported the PICNIC.
I drove through the park on my way home from work tonight. I forgot about the 4/20 stuff going on there today. There was trash everywhere. On the news, I saw film of thousands of people all over the park. Then I took another look at the Jimmy’s Old Car picnic on this blog. Despite Mr. Mar’s comments, I cannot fathom comparing Jimmy’s one day event with all the other massive concerts and crush of humanity, and all the city agencies needed to manage and monitor these events. The decision has been made, obviously, but don’t insult our intelligence by claiming that you are “sad” that Jimmy’s is no more.
While walking over to the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence’s 35th Anniversary event in Speedway Meadow, from 23rd Ave, AND on my return I had to dodge cars parking all over the triangle of lawn between Crossover Drive and Transverse Drive. People using the pedestrian path to wait for a parking space on the lawn, going back and forth (and blocking pedestrians for a minute or more) while trying to wedge into a space. All with a Rec and Park employee looking on. Apparently new car parking is OK while old car parking is not. I don’t get out much on Sunday afternoons, but I had not seen this piece of lawn used for parking before. I hope it does not become a trend.
@ renee
here’s more on the mess left by the 4/20 crowd
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Mountains-of-trash-after-4-20-pot-party-5418287.php
As for Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic: For what it’s worth, Rec and Parks told Mar what THEY wanted him to hear. Even though I disagree with Mr. Mar in about half his initiatives, it’s not too much of a stretch that senior management of Rec and Parks (or the lead on these fee changes, who want to cover their butts) are feeding Mar – and/or anyone else that inquires – what THEY want you/him/them to believe.
Watching GGPark and other public amenities go to the highest bidder with no thought to impacts is disgraceful. GGPark is DEFINITELY on a path to be known as a concert venue – THAT is what Rec and Parks is up to. I’ll bet hard cash on that.
Stated above; nobody has really performed an opportunity cost analysis for these concerts. All we hear is upside. Baloney! It’s time to start asking HARD questions and holding Rec and Parks and producers feet to the fire by making them SHOW San Francisco how it’s making a profit; and how much of a profit, accounting for ALL immediate, near-long-term, and projected long-term costs.
Regarding 4/20, it’s an unofficial ‘event’ so it can’t really be compared to any other permitted event.
I live near the coast so any events in the park greatly impact my ability to leave my house while they’re happening, and even though I’ve never gone to a big event in the park I support them being there. The park, and the use of it, is part of what helps hold together the unique fabric of this city. But the small events are just as important and it’s pretty crummy that Jimmy has been pushed out. It really sounds like someone in Rec and Park has a vendetta against him.
It’s difficult to perform an opportunity cost analysis for a cultural event and once you start pushing those out (Hardly Strictly, Outside Lands, Mountain Dew tour, marathons that close my street several times a year, Sunday Streets, etc.) then you end up with a generic city with nothing to offer residents or visitors.
If all you see in the park is a concert venue (and seriously, how many concerts actually happen there each year? Five?) then you aren’t taking enough time to explore the park on your own. If you only explore it through the media and complaints on message boards, you’re missing out on the other 360 days a year where you have free reign to everything GGP has to offer. When was the list time you stopped to say hello to a bison? Did you know city residents get into the botanical garden for free? Have you found the fairy door yet?
Anyhoo, I don’t know how the people that run Parks and Rec are appointed, but we should find out so we can, you know, participate in democracy and try to oust them. Or perhaps someone more sympathetic should run for office.
Eric Mar,
If you or your staff bothered to do your jobs and actually research any point or policy you would have found out what I found out. Your statement that:
“a Park Impact fee of $8 per vehicle (to cover rehabilitation to the turf needed due to the impact of vehicles on the grass)”
The facts are, as I stated above, that the cars did little to no damage to the grass. The science says no, the best minds in US universities said no, and if Rec & Park dared to have a 3rd part geo-tech firm do compaction tests it would show no.
Of course they are afraid of the truth, just as you are. If real analysis was done on damage to the park by events there is a real chance that mega events would have to pay a lot more or be stopped.
Stop making statements that you and your staff cannot back up. Stop taking what senior city staff tell you at face value. Can ANY elected official really believe that in such a situation that the city staff would admit that anything they did was wrong.
We are not stupid. We know that they will cover their backsides unless and until faced with overwhelming evidence to the contrary and they surly will do everything to make sure that will not happen.
If we are not stupid and see what is going on, what does that say about you and your staff?
It is time that the Department of Rec & Park board be abolished and set up as directly elected by district in San Francisco and that all events with over 5000 people have to be voted on by new elected board. This would end this silliness.
JD.
This is a travesty and I place the blame at Eric Mar’s feet. This is lousy representation of our district when traditional charitable events like this are thrown over the cliff. Shame on him! Rec & Park and Mar’s office should be required to take out of their budgets an amount equivalent to the donation the charity receives until and unless the event is permitted again!
@Matty3
you said: “If you only explore it through the media and complaints on message boards, you’re missing out on the other 360 days a year where you have free reign to everything GGP has to offer.”
Matty, a well-considered post. We disagree about Rec and Park’s ability to – and necessity for – running an opportunity cost analysis for most of these events. Why? Because these analysis provide a far more sound accounting base from which to determine the REAL costs to the city for these events, instead of convenient “estimates” based on what? – “educated” guesses by the producers of the event? “educated” guesses on what people who attend the event will spend? “educated” guesses on how “this is good for San Francisco?”. I call baloney.
We have heard the same thing about sporting venues, for decades. Guess what, they NEVER pay back municipalities – so taxpayers end up picking up the tab that goes straight to the owner/producer’s pocket.
Also, Rec and Parks and even Sups will push back, because they have been “sold” by these event producers, who find political or “influence-peddling” ways to suggest to senior bureaucrats and Sups that “we can make it worth your while”, without saying like that. There IS a quid pro quo in play for stuff like this. So, what has happened is that senior execs in Rec and Parks – who have a lot of power – can feather their resumes and influence at City Hall by “selling” numbers that have never been tightly audited.
What aggravates me about the above scenarios is that citizen push back is predictable – complaints about immediate neighborhood impacts (noise, etc.) are given the “rolling eye treatment” by people who know how to push things through.
A real analysis of these events – a rigorous analysis – need not be done for every event. Take the top 4-5 events and do the work. It’s going to cost maybe high five-figures to carry it off. Once the analyses are done the City has a good template to use for the future; it can be tweaked. Thus, we end up with a social capital and finance cost tool that is FAR more accurate than self-serving “educated guesses”. btw, these analyses are not 100% accurate. It’s impossible to measure every variable, but you get closer to real costs, and therefore are far more able to charge OPTIMAL mitigation fees to concert promoters.
Also, if you get push back from promoters, or Rec and Parks on this – think about where that is coming from. Senior bureaucrats and event producers have been feathering each others nests for a long time – include City Supervisors in that category. I’m not suggesting anything illegal, but rather an insider-driven process that leads to profit for a few, with San Francisco taxpayers and residents holding the bag.
Last, we’re not talking about just a few days a year. Think about how many days – pre-and-post event – that some or large portions of the park are rendered unusable when a large event happens.
Now that Mr. Mar has had an opportunity to see this idea (in this forum), perhaps he can suggest it to his fellow Supes. I hope he does that. It’s the right thing to do. I want to know with FAR more exactitude what these events cost our city, so that the producers who use OUR city for their profit-taking are made responsible for making SURE that OUR city is made MORE sustainable by their event. If certain producers threaten to bail – good riddance! That is a sure sign that their back-of-the-napkin-estimates are fluff. I’m betting that they are.
I’d vote for you, Phil, if you were running for office (not holding my breath).
@JD your idea makes sense! @Phil, there is no audit or report of the revenues and expenses associated with park events. I don’t think it could be that expensive to work up a matrix both for applying and existing events, another good suggestion.
So with all these comments how to translate them into action for the next step. Is there a next step?
Been their hella times born and raised san fran cali too bad no mo
David H. said: “with all these comments how to translate them into action for the next step. Is there a next step?”
Mr. Mar? Do you have ideas about how we might go forward implementing some of these suggestions? What is the best way to move them into position among the Supes, and how can we get sufficient traction on setting up templates for events that are more representative of total costs?
I’m glad about the ending as I’m anti-old cars because of my siblings addiction to them.
Mar? Crickets. This is disgusting and an obvious vendetta against the PICNIC. Mar, what did the $10,000/ year donation to handicapped children go towards? They are also victims here and apparently just out that money. How is R & P going to make up that difference? Or, are they just chalked up to unintended consequences to R and P and YOUR vendetta?
Summary: By increasing the permit fees for “Jimmy’s Old Car Picnic” by thousands of dollars a year not once but multiple times, parks and recreation was able to put an end to an event which was free for the public, raised thousands of dollars for charity, and had little to no environmental impact, because in so doing, parks and recreation is able to snatch up the date for another Outside Lands-type concert event, which will not be free for the public, has a significant environmental impact, but will, of course, do much to fill the coffers of parks and recreation.
By the way, Mar, thank you for the comments. You truly are the next Leland Yee.
Get a load of THIS!
http://blog.sfgate.com/djsaunders/2014/04/23/does-420-smokefest-need-corporate-sponsor/
I for one would like to see this tradition continue. Let all talk about a solution not the problems the city parks & rec say there is.
1st Some thoughts on continuing the event. Like the comment from someone, lets just pick a date and everyone show up and park from the top of JFK drive all the way down towards the Great Hwy. This is free and the city will be missing out on all that revenue (and may change their view for future events). We could still ask participants to donate $ for the charity. Maybe $20.00 for shirts $5.00 for dash plagues or something along these lines.
2nd idea is to host the event just outside the city limits such as at the end of Geneva across the street from the 7 mile house. I know other car shows have been help there. It’s not as nice as the park, but at least the city of SF would not get any revenue. or possibly the Cow Palace parking lot still not in SF.
3rd idea possibly one of the overflow parking lots down around Candlestick or maybe there is some company who would like to sponsor the event and let us use their parking lot.
These are ideas that have I and others have been talking about.
Who ever is out there that would like to chat about a solution to continue the event and not harp on the problem let me know.
Thanks Freddie
Sad to hear of the ending of Jimmy’s old car picnic a real San Francisco community event.
One of the best car events in the bay area!
Thanks Jimmy for some really great days !!
we can still have the picnic by taking every legal parking space in the park it would wake up park and rec with the lost of revenue to the muesem academy and tea garden and stow lake instead of one picnic site we can reserve every picnic table in the park all cars can make up thier own signs in support of jlmmy” old car picnic
What a shame that this will not continue, and symptomatic of San Francisco becoming too expensive for many of us to enjoy….sad.
This is really sad. Jimmy and folks like him who are natives of the City, have seen San Francisco change from a City that had free everything to a City where it costs $$ to do anything. Then when you pay, you see nothing done with that money. People blame Prop. 13 for the lack of funds but it boils down to the misuse of the revenues received.
Does anyone remember? Fleishacker Zoo ? Free. Steinhardt Aquarium ? Free. Arboretum? Free. DeYoung? Free. Japanese Tea Garden? Free. Conservatory of Flowers? Free. Picnic in the Park? Free. Now it has become a City of fees. You pay at each one now.
How much is it to go to the Aquarium? About $30. How did it go from free to $30?
Just try to park and buy a pizza on 8th Ave. and Irving. Add $3-$4 for a parking space. Oh well, the City has doomed you all to fees and charges and who knows where that money goes. Very sad.
Hey, that’s Jimmy’s daughter sitting in my Datsun racecar back in… 2002 (?)
It is such a shame that SF has lost touch with what makes our City special. Thank you Jimmy and crew for welcoming my Datsun club many years ago. I wish you all the best.
And if you read this Jimmy please contact me at my shop on Balboa St.
Michael, Calspeed Moto SF
I too very much lamented that Jimmy’s was gone, but there WAS an old car picnic that appeared in every way to be exactly like Jimmy’s. It took place on October 18 and it was great!
http://www.sfcarpicnic.com/
I really hope they repeat it in 2015.