2014 Neighbor’s Guide to Outside Lands Music Festival, August 8-10

87 Comments

1. I plan on helping the city’s budget short fall by having inconsiderate concert goers ticketed (or towed) who block my driveway. If they cannot read the signs and want to take a chance, it will cost them $100+.

2. it’s not on ustream this year, but supposed to be an audio feed on itunes

3. Nice Franz! Or you could be nice to tourists who are just looking for a place to put their car while they enjoy our neighborhood by allowing them to use your driveway for a small fee. You might even be able to make a tidy profit by selling water or other beverages to people who walk by. You could do that. Or you could ruin someone’s day. Which will it be?

4. does anyone know if bicyclists can enter the park and ride on middle drive or mlk on the weekends?

5. @ray – Not sure but this page has the most complete info on closures in the park:
   http://www.sfoutsidelands.com/311/

   Sarah B.

6. @j- you can’t sell food unless you get a permit from the City. They tried closing down some kid’s lemonade stand last year (another place, another time). So nope, you can’t make any money hand over fist with food sales.

7. @J – I will have all the signage posted warning “tourists”. But as with other years, they elect to ignore them. They have a right to enjoy the music and I have a right to the use of my garage. Trust me, I paid way more for my access then they did for their tickets. But if you would like people blocking your driveway, maybe you can let all the readers know and we will send the tourists your way.

8. So it’s time for Outside Lands. I can’t decide if I get more cheap entertainment from the hipster visitors to Outside Lands as they prowl the neighborhood looking for parking or from all the grumpy, grumpy people who complain about it and post to blogs.

9. The problem I have with The City and The Event Producer is that they are obfuscating the truth as it applies to the problems of people blocking driveways and wheelchair cut outs on corners.

   Every year I we hear stores form people who called DPW get a car towed. Most years they (DPW dispatchers) will admit that it will take hours to get a car removed. Since everyone in the Richmond knows that fact they stop calling. The City and The Producer then talk up the fact that they did not get that many calls and pat themselves on the head for doing such a good job. What a sham!

   Here is the facts. With 2 trunks available and a 1 hour round trip time to hook up a car, drop it down at impound, and get back to the Richmond they have the ability to remove 12 cars between 3PM and 9 PM. That is assuming traffic is not so bad they can in fact do it in an hour. Does anyone really think that only 12 people are blocking driveways or curb cut outs during the show?

   If the folks in Park & Rec, DPW, and the producers has to meet a performance indices on removing all cars that are blocking a driveway or curb cut out within 15 minutes of a call, they would have to have at least dozen trucks in the Richmond. Of course that would dig into their profit margins, piss off the ticket holds, and make the event look bad.

   The whole thing is nothing but legal racketeering between The City and The Producers. I have nothing wrong with the show. But, the locals should not have this game of roulette going on if they can or cannot get out of their driveway or if in a wheel chair access the sidewalk.

   JD.

10. sfresident, I think you can resell packaged food…I wasn’t referring to homemade tamales or anything, but as far as I know there’s nothing to stop you from going to Grocery Outlet and buying candy bars, nuts, and soda cans and reselling them out of a cooler..I see that every year for all sorts of events. There might be tax issues but that’s between you and the IRS.

11. Yep, a racket. Every year it’s the same complaints. People who live in the neighborhood are slightly inconvenienced. God forbid people would be inconvenienced on a weekend, two days out of 365. Every year it is the same complaints. Fortunately, the rest of us deal with it, enjoy the music, enjoy the crowds and the new people in the neighborhood (especially on Geary after the event…a lot of businesses stay open late to handle additional crowds, so I’m pretty sure they don’t mind) and have a fun weekend. Or get out of town.

12. People need to chill out & enjoy life. It’s great having these events in the park.
    It’s not all “hipsters” & “tourists”. I’m a native San Franciscan who was born & raised in the Richmond & still live here, a few blocks up from the entrance. I go to Outsidelands every year all 3 days & it’s a lot of fun & great music…well, this year isn’t the greatest lineup. I have family members & friends who are all native SF, that also go. BTW, I’m not a youngster either.
    So don’t be grumpy, it’s only 3 days. If someone is blocking your driveway, but you’re not needing to get out of garage, don’t call on them, be nice for once. If someone is blocking my driveway, I don’t care, if I’m not needing to get out.

13. I so agree with you Karen, people should chill out at the music festival, after all they get a chance to attend it after a year.

14. Still waiting for Parks and Rec to issue an ACCURATE analysis of the COMPLETE cost to our city for Outside Lands. Maybe we’ll see that pulled from someone’s archive in the year 2040. I’m betting $$$ that concerts this size are a net LOSS to San Francisco.

    What is happening to San Francisco these days reminds me of what was happening to Seattle in the mid-80’s. We’re a small city with relatively limited powerhouse venues (compared to the REALLY great cities in America – like NYC, Chicago, LA) trying to be “all cool and everything”. It’s really kind of pathetic and kind of groveling for municipal status.

    So, in trying to play with the big boys, San Francisco tries to shoehorn venues into San Francisco that people buy into because they’re BIG. Even the smaller-scaled venues like Bay-to-Breakers get screwed up because profiteers and clueless politicos want in on the act of anything that will profit their personal agendas.

    San Francisco is a *small scale* city – that’s our charm – but various politicos and their pal commercial producer friends (overlords?) want to pad their resumes and pocketbooks, respectively – so we get “Outsized Lands” and other big scale garbage that depends on massive audio amplification, trashing GG Park, and the usual crowd of concert lemmings who treat the city like their personal garbage can.

    Anyway, have a nice day!

15. To reiterate what my 93 yr old parents (who are also native to SF & their parents as well) said, “people here whine & complain too much. It was never like this, & people used to be friendly & nice”. I told them that it’s probably because the natives moved away to affordable places to raise families & the people who moved here didn’t grow up learning acceptance & tolerance like we did.
    So complainers, if you want to live in a “really great city in America”, move.

16. @Karen I agree with your parents – i.e. ” It was never like this”. San Francisco has only recently tried to make the play for large smashmouth venues. And, having been here a really long time, myself, I also remember the days when people had an accepting and tolerant quality re: different opinions, instead of asking their neighbors to “move” just because they disagree with them; it appears that the quality of tolerance for differing opinions has been lost on some.

17. I’m not saying move because I disagree, I’m saying move to everyone who complains so much about this city.
    And regarding large venues, in the old days of my grandparents & parents, they’ve told us about all the big festivals & music venues they used to go to. I remember when I was young, there had always been alot of events in the park & elsewhere in the city that we would go to, but there weren’t as many people then. And if nothing was going on, we would go to Playland at the Beach, which brought a lot of people to the area, esp. on weekends. People didn’t complain about all the cars or noise.

18. @karen It appears that someone who disagrees with your opinion about Outside Lands or anything else is “complaining”, or a “whiner”, and that you feel “complainers” and “whiners should move. Is that correct?

    And, in the old days of your parents and grandparents we did not have annual events attended by 65,000 people, a significant minority of whom chose to trash GG Park, block driveways, and rebel-rouse just because they felt like it – for an entire weekend.
    Read this: http://www.sfgate.com/music/article/Outside-Lands-big-names-bigger-sound-3783202.php

    Take a walk through GG Park after Outside Lands, or after some of the other large venues held there. I dare you. the amount of trash lying on the ground, and the gross disrespect for GG Park by many of those concert-goes is nothing short of outrageous. Don’t you get the sense that GG Park is just one big Concert venue for that entire weekend, regardless that many San Franciscans in the Sunset and Richmond don’t want the inconvenience?

    And, when you were young, have you considered that people didn’t complain about “all the cars and noise” because there were not that many cars, and not that much noise? This is Something to consider.

19. Wow, like I said, people need to chill out. I’ll be having fun this weekend in the park

20. This event is bad for anyone that frequents the park. The event doesn’t just last for the 3 days the out of towners arrive; set up and take down is all of August and half of September. Semi trucks and mobs of people destroy all the grass and vegetation which locals who go to the park regularly know takes 3 months to bounce back. Thousands of feet of fencing keeping tax payers out of their park is completely wrong and should be illegal. Not to mention the hawks, coyotes, and other wildlife that get displaced with fencing and heavy machinery for the 2 months.

    This is the peoples park and should be open 365 days a year for everyone! Not used as some trashy fair grounds where money is king.

21. As long as they don’t use Beyonce’s sound engineers, it will be just another sale of public property to tourism. The net is probably in the same range as taxpayer funded sports stadiums which provide seasonal low wage employment. Follow the money.

    Most of the old big events were held on private property, places that are now condos and entirely lack community spaces accessible to non-owners or their tenants. All this new housing has had zero planning for transit, power, water, outdoor space; basically infrastructure which has been sacrificed for increased population for increased property tax.

    Outside Lands is but one event of an almost endless series of weekday and weekend events that starts with Bay to Breakers and continues until near to Halloween that alter traffic and Muni patterns on this side of town.

    As someone who cannot drive or ride a bicycle and is entirely dependent on Muni (I do not have a smartphone so I can’t use Uber or some of the alternate cab companies and have decades of familiarity with the lousy cab service out here), these events impair my mobility and disrupt routine errands by making them last 3-4 hours longer than they normally take. I wonder if the non-driving, low-income immigrants in our neighborhood have the same experience as I do, they’re not commenting in English language publications.

22. @Karen said: “Wow, like I said, people need to chill out. I’ll be having fun this weekend in the park”

    No, you said that people who disagree with you are whiners and complainers and that they should move. I think you’re the one that needs to chill out. Have a nice weekend, and chill.

23. Re-read from my first comment #12.

24. Jaysus, the angry rants of some people. I’m sorry you live such a miserable life.
    I agree with J & Karen.

25. Get a life, complainers

26. Our family friend lives right across from GG Park on the Richmond side. Every year since these concerts began, he’s found people’s poop, barf, and mess right outside his house right after the three-day bacchanal binge known as Outside Lands. Last year was even worse. Some inebriated concert goer drove his car into our friend’s house, causing significant structural damage. So, is this a worthy complaint? Should are friend be labelled a whiner and a loser because he doesn’t look forward to this every year? And why should he move? He’s a long time SF. Moving is simply not an option as you know.

    I know several non-speaking immigrants who live in the area. They don’t like the concerts either because Muni never works on those days. So yeah, can’t shop for food. They are also older so bike riding is out.

27. “This event is bad for anyone that frequents the park.”

    False. I frequent the park. As people here post year after year after year, it is unreasonable to expect access to the park every single weekend. It’s three days out of the year that you are inconvenienced. Yes, you people are “whining”. Yes, you people are “unreasonable” and fortunately there’s a large contingent of San Franciscans who enjoy the event, don’t mind or can tolerate the minor disruptions it causes, and can enjoy life. Yes, you people are NIMBYs, specifically, because you continually try to get this event moved or bring up ludicrous, irrelevant issues like the cost to the city when it’s been bringing in a ton of money for years now.

    “Semi trucks and mobs of people destroy all the grass and vegetation which locals who go to the park regularly know takes 3 months to bounce back.”

    So? It grows back. And your histrionics are false; I go into the park after the event and it’s fine, and I am a local. You don’t speak for all locals.. I have actually found the event to be very tame compared to many events like this I have been too; yes the grass is flattened, but it pops back up very quickly afterwards. If the Washington Mall can stand tons of people on it on a regular basis and still have healthy grass, than so can the park.

    4thGenRichmond, it’s unfortunate that these events obstruct your mobility. But events like this should not be shuttered or moved or altered because of that, I’m sorry to say. When I go to this event and see the thousands of people enjoying themselves, rocking out to great music on a great SF afternoon, and enjoying the neighborhood afterwards, I don’t have much sympathy. It’s unfortunate your life is disrupted…but that is part and parcel of living in a big city. It’s messy sometimes. People act like idiots sometimes. You might even wake up and find barf on your doorstep.

    Too bad. It’s not every day; it’s once a year that this event occurs, and seriously, if you don’t like it or if the three day event is too much for people here, they should seriously consider moving someplace quieter, like Pacifica or Santa Rosa.

    Every year it’s the same thing. This event happens, there are HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS of happy people going to this event and other events just like it, enjoying themselves, putting money into the coffers of the city, spending time int he neighborhood and having a ball, and all people can do is whine and complain about how it affects them. This is the height of selfishness and NIMBYism, and I’m gonna come right out and say it, and it’s unfortunate if people are offended, but that is the way it is.

    The park, as people here post year after year after year, is NOT YOUR PARK just because you live next to it. It belongs to everyone in this city, and that means people from other parts of the city have a right to enjoy it, even at the risk of the loss of your ability to leave the neighborhoods by normal routes for a few days, or loud noises for a few days.

    sfresident, you know several immigrants who live in the area who hate it? I know many who live in the area who attend, and a few who are even working the event. If muni isn’t working on those days so they can go get groceries, perhaps they should plan to get groceries before the event; otherwise they may be a bit inconvenienced. This is part of living in a big city, and SF is a big city, even though many people in the neighborhood seem to be effected by the bucolic illusion that it is otherwise because they live near a gigantic park.

28. I wish I could edit.
    like this I have been too = like this I have been to;
    effected = affected

    Sure would be nice to have an edit function.

29. No big deal J. Happens all the time in this digital age when tapping fast with the thumbs, & also when it changes words for you. Lol

30. @J You said: “because you continually try to get this event moved or bring up ludicrous, irrelevant issues like the cost to the city when it’s been bringing in a ton of money for years now.”

    Really? Show me. Parks and Rec won’t do an audit that even approximates the opportunity cost to the city for Outsized (sic) Lands and other large events. Let’s take a look at what is NOT included in the myth perpetrated by Parks and Rec; the greed ball producers of this (and other) events, and oyur naive claims. For instance (this is a partial list).
    1) How many potential visitors AVOID San Francisco during these event, going elsewhere to spend money? Not just nearby GG Park, but the entire city? How many locals avoid going out to eat and shop.
    2) How many San Franciscans leave town *just because* the event is here?
    3) What’s the incidental $$ damage to private property; public property?
    4) What’s the cost of wear and tear to GG Park, long term? (never audited for ANY event, not even once). Just for Outsized Lands that’s someo significant % of 65,000+ people shuffling, and puking, and pulling up/trampling flora, etc. etc.
    5) What are the setup costs; the cleanup costs; the re-turfing costs for GGPark and surrounding area?
    6) What are the policing and other public safety and emergency health costs, pre-and-post Concert?
    7) What is the cost to wildlife in GGPark?
    8) Public transport costs
    9) Diversion of public service costs

    These are just SOME of the opportunity cost units that no study or audit has ever performed.

    Take a look at these ticket prices, which are indicative of who is coming – certainly not most San Franciscans. http://www.sfoutsidelands.com/tickets/ And, the ticket prices are slated to go higher.
    The producers of this outsized event donate $1 per ticket and 10% of gross receipts – are you kidding me? $1 *per ticket*.

    So, where is the audit? Instead of an audit, all you can find is drivel like this, “compiled with information from both online and in-person surveys of over 3,500 attendees of the 2011 festival”. Nothing like a *self-reporting* “survey” of concertgoers to prove their own point, eh? Pathetic. I would love to know how much the survey taker (probably a SF State MBA student and a few cohorts) got paid to perform this “study” – what a joke! Not one resident, no real finance audit, nothing but uninformed projections from attendance numbers. No opportunity costs, etc.
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/10/outside-lands-a-major-boon-to-san-francisco-economy_n_1269418.html

    So the next time you make claims, please show me how you back those claims up with something other than uninformed opinion.

    btw, I love music and at one time worked in the music industry. Outsized Lands is little more than an excuse to party; it’s not about the music. I like partying, too, but what San Francisco is becoming is completely represented by the hoot and holler crowd that attends OL and other events like it.

    Last, if it makes you and a few others feel better to decry those who disagree with you as “whiners” or “NIMBYs”, please continue to do do. Name-calling in a dispute is essentially status-seeking, which says something about the name caller. So, J, and Karen, and Liam and Gary and a few others, lease remember this:

    “Observe which side resorts to the most vociferous name-calling and you are likely to have identified the side with the weaker argument, and they know it”. – Charles R. Anderson

    I’m going to be right here over the weekend, enjoying lovely San Francisco, but staying away from lemming masses at Outsized Lands. And, making sure that anyone who parks in front of my driveway or pees on my lawn pays a dear price that will easily double the price of their ticket. I’ll also be enjoying music at some smaller venues in the city, but it certainly won’t be from the likes of misogynists like Kanye West. Enjoy!

31. “Really? Show me.”
    No, because each time people post facts about the costs and income associated with the event, you ignore it. I did this last year and the year before, positing information from the city about the amount of income the event brings in, but it clearly had no effect. If you are concerned about the “opportunity cost units” involved, feel free to bring these up to the city…but my suspicion is because the city feels that this event is one that is important to retain, even at the expense of the inconvenience of neighbors, you will be ignored, and rightfully so. These promoters were required to go through a thousand hoops to get permits for these sorts of events; it is very difficult to put on anything major like this in the city.

    You can’t put a number on “happiness” of tourists who come for this event, or the joy of listening to great music in a park, or the excitement of meeting people from all over the world who are coming for this event (I know, because I’ve met them). The city believes that the costs from putting on this event are far outweighed by the benefits this event brings, and that is good enough for me. At the end of the day though, I don’t really care, because I would actually be happy if the city actually PAID the promoters to put the event on. There are a lot of other cities that would be willing to host an event like this, but the promoters choose to put it here because SF is awesome, and because it is able to have it in a great venue despite the inconvenienced caused to neighbors.

    Even if the city lost money because of this event, the amount of beneficial reputation, and word-of-mouth among young tourists would outweigh it. SF is hot right now in media all around because of our tech scene, our beautiful scenery,and YES, our music scene, and that is NOT something that is quantifiable in any audit, opportunity cost or other irrelevant pedantry you come up with. You quoted the Huffington Post article, then poo-pood it because it interviewed the very people who went to the concert. Tell you what, you finance a survey of 3500 neighbors (who you will certainly choose at your whim) to give their opinions, and then I will poo-poo your results, and it will be even. Fortunately, the show will still go on.

    The tickets are expensive because of the huge amount of bands that come in, the huge costs of putting on an event like this, and the absurd requirements and hoops the city makes promoters jump through to put on these events. The fact that it has been able to go on for years is a miracle.

    When I have gone to OL, and am in the middle of a crowd watching and listening to a huge band, making great music, and watching the vast majority of people behaving respectfully, and then I think about all the arguments people like you put out about the allegedly huge and debilitating costs to the city and the neighbors, and I can’t help but laugh and laugh. When a hundred-thousand people around you are watching 50 bands playing great music all day, enjoying a gorgeous park, and watching how well the promoters manage the event while you are in the event, these sorts of claims really just float away in the wind. It’s an excuse to listen to music AND to party. So what?

    Finally, about name-calling, your pithy quote misses the point. I am not calling you and your ilk NIMBYs or selfish because I want to feel good about myself or for “status-seeking”, but because I like to call a spade a spade. I call them how I see them, and every year there is the same group of people who whine about the inconvenience caused by this incredible event in the city. And I’m calling it out for what it is: a selfish, me-first, NIMBY attitude.

    And it’s funny you should mention Charles R. Anderson – he would probably be enjoying dancing at Outside Lands this weekend:

    “”He loved being the center of attention, and one time while lecturing students in Macon, he jumped on a library table and began to dance,” said federal Judge Robert Lanier Anderson III, a nephew who lives in Macon, Ga.”

    http://articles.baltimoresun.com/1999-11-12/news/9911120198_1_anderson-american-literature-henry-james

32. @J and the rest of the commenters on this thread…

    Let’s ease up please. Some of you don’t agree with each other, and it’s clear that no amount of arguing, name-calling, and bullying will change that – yet you still persist in the attempt to have the last word.

    So please agree to disagree and cut down on the unpleasantness. This discussion is very unwelcoming and is becoming much too personal for my liking. Please refrain from further rants, attacks or lengthy responses.

    I realize that the anonymous environment of a comments section can make it much easier to be outrageous and extreme, but resist the urge and please be respectful of other commenters’ opinions, as well as those who are reading these passively. Even if being respectful requires holding your tongue. Thank you,

    Sarah B.

33. I’m out. Enjoy the weekend, everyone!

34. We’re leaving town this weekend. Can’t beat ’em? Leave ’em.

35. Thank you, Sarah B.

    Referencing a previous post, I’m hiding a free parking space on Cabrillo Street at 11 AM Saturday morning. (Back 11 PM after sorting big stacks of old files, draft maps, etc. in a secret Pacifica hideaway).

36. I can’t believe I’m saying this but yeah Outside Lands is kind of a drag. It would be different if it were the Dead or something but 3 days of like punked up noise and RNR is not really what I want to experience on the weekend.

37. @ Phil, I can agree with everything you’ve said. And every year this blog gets the Karen and J’s who try and p

38. It’s Thursday night, and I can already hear the sound check inside my house, over two miles away in West Portal.

39. I don’t live in the Richmond but I own a business there in outer Richmond. I’m sorry some residents don’t like events out there but as a business owner it’s a great money maker. Outsidelands & the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass are huge for us & keeps us afloat alittle easier. It’s too bad the Alice Summerthing moved to Sharon Meadow & Power to the Peaceful couldn’t afford the high park fees anymore, because those brought in a lot of customers as well. It’s hard keeping a business going in outer Richmond because not a lot of foot traffic, but the rents are low compared to other areas

40. @ Phil, for what it matters, I can agree with everything you’ve said.

    And every year this blog gets J and Karen who try and play the “happy innocents” although in reality they’re trolling as hard as they can to get as many people pissed off as possible. And each year the festival organizers put out a hotline so residents can call and “vent ” (as one volunteer described it to me two years ago… and then laughingly informed me that they had no plans to change anything, but they had to put the number out there to make it look like they gave a damn!). And every year our own supervisor Eric Mar continues to take as much credit for the event as possible rather than show any concern for the constituents in his own district (and then gets all narcissistic and indignant when a large section of the district try to vote him out of office. In 5 years, this man has never said a word or assisted any of the residents who are driven crazy by these concerts. It’s like Bush and AIDS). AND every year the Park and Rec, Another Planet Entertainment and SFPD watch as large sums of money changes hands from one official to another; why should they enforce any laws when that much cash is lining their pockets? Anyone else notice that the volume of the musicgradually increases each year to show everyone just who’s in control here?

    So you know what? NOTHING CHANGES. Just like every year, the residents of the Richmond district who post to this blog and complain will forget about it and become apathetic again in a few days, and it’ll happen all over again in 2015… and year after year, for at least another 7 years, thanks to all that $$$ being soaked up. And those of us who deal with it are reduced to being “old, whiney, grumpy people” if we complain, because we should know better than to speak up for our rights when it comes down to the holy Outside Lands and/or Hardly Srictly Bluegrass. And yes, hundreds of thousands of people should be entitled to come to our neighborhoods, use up our parking spaces, trash the streets and the park, blast incredibly loud, pumping music for three days, ten hours day and stand and talk out on the streets until 2:00 a.m. and keep us all up. Why? Because it’s a concert, and since these people LIKE three days of live music, absolutely NO ONE has any right to stand in their way.

    So,,, “Hey, chill out…!”

    “So what if they park in your driveway and hold you hostage for the next seven or eight hours while they’re at the concert? Be courteous! They’re ‘tourists!'”

    Damn, we’re so selfish.

41. And Sarah: I just saw your posting. No more comments from me.

42. @BusinessOwner – Interesting perspective, thanks for sharing.

    Sarah B.

43. What this thread shows are an interesting conflict of philosophy here in the Richmond District. Similar to many going on in our country today.

    The two strains of thought as I see it reading these posts are:

    One camp thinks that the folks who run our town are “cooking the books” over events like OSL’s so that a full and complete analysis cannot be made as to the Benefit-Cost to the community for the event.

    The other camp does not seem to care about any Benefit-Cost Analysis and just wants the OSL’s to go on respective of the costs to the local community.

    I tend to think that we should have a full B/C study on such things so that if nothing else we make sure that those people making a profit on public land actually pay not only for the direct costs but also pay the indirect costs to the community for use of our neighborhood and park. Do remember who pays for the park, not the out of town visitors but the local land owners.

    That said, if the community wants the event then so be it. In that event then again there are two camps of thought on the event.

    One camp thinks that everyone should turn the other cheek to those who block driveways, block curb cuts, stand the elderly and those in a wheelchair from their free movement, toss garbage around, and the like.

    One camp thinks that all these issues need to be strictly enforced. I tend to fall in this camp. The romanticizing going on about the neighborhood not being so picky in generations past is just that. Romanticizing. Two generations ago the attendees would take responsibility for their actions and never even come close to blocking someone’s driveway. They would not toss their garbage in someone’s yard, they would not walk 10 blocks drunk and yelling at 11:00 PM at night after the show. If a few did the police would have them in a wagon in 10 minutes.

    The lack of respect for those asking for more mitigations of the shows side affects has characteristics of the tyranny of the majority. Something that all people should guard against lest you and your interest be next.

44. Yes, I agree. Somebody is making money off all these events, & majority rules, or they wouldn’t be going on this long…OSL-6 yrs & HSB-13 yrs. i have to say though, I’ve been volunteering at HSB for 10 yrs & every yr there’s more people, it’s over 10 times the people as Outsidelands, because it’s free, & I think that one is getting alittle out of hand. As a volunteer, even though we have access roads, sometimes we need to get through the crowd & it’s almost impossible. As an OSL attendee, they are very organized in the park & crowds are no problem.
    I do know that both events pay for cleanup & extra police.
    Oh also, because of the exorbitant fees the city park charges, only large event companies are able to afford it.

45. FYI – I drove past Jefferson Elementary yesterday; the sign said $30 for event parking.

    Late yesterday I was sitting next to a loud fan when I heard and felt what I thought was thunder but it lasted too long to be thunder. Turned off the fan and discovered it was a sound check. it went on for about 30 minutes. 311 refused to take my call and the OL line wasn’t in service yet. I’m fine with concert in the park to a point. I don’t think I should be able to hear & feel the music as much as I do.
    Rarely if ever do I hear anything from Hardly Strictly Bluegrass or any other concert in that area of the park.

46. Thanks, Suzie – updated the Jefferson lot fee.

    Sarah B.

47. Eh. I live two blocks north of the park and don’t mind OL. There are people having a good time. Sure, there are a few drunk idiots, but we deal with strung-out park addicts and parolees roaming around robbing our cars and garages year-round, so this is nothing. Besides, when I was in my teens and 20s I was pretty obnoxious too weekend nights.

    Great thing is earplug technology has come a long way in terms of effectiveness and comfort.

    Have fun and be safe everyone! Dress in layers and stay hydrated.

48. Why hasn’t anyone spoken up for the homeless people living in GGP? Don’t these big events disturb their lifestyle?

49. Some good points above.

    Praying for a parking spot sometimes works around OL. Later in the weekend, praying for a parking spot north of Lake Street works better. (Not even searching south of California and planning on a mile walk home saves a great deal of fruitless searching).

    Friday noon, coming back from an errand, I figured I’d plan ahead, and asked the universe for three parking spots throughout the weekend, and found three (legal) schoolbus zone spots IN A ROW. (Took one, left two – I hope that didn’t use up my quota!).

50. Report for West Portal. Car alarm set off 3 times by bass. Called complaint line, and they said it is a known problem, but they can’t fix it until tomorrow. I don’t know if I’ve ever heard anything so loud in my life, I fear for the people attending. I find it hard to believe that the festival’s permit covers this level of disruption spread so far away.

51. Yes, L, we can hear a tremendous amount of noise here in West Portal. I wonder if people at the concert will have their ears damaged.

52. The sound vibration in my living room is borderline unbearable… it hurts. I am @ outer California

    @L: Last year I had asked OL to produce their event permit. I thought it would have the noise levels they were allowed to reach, and which I suspected they had exceeded by miles. They of course just gave me a runaround and then hang up. So for me the question is the city allowing this event to ignore laws to such a degree year after year. (c) Public Property Noise Limits. No person shall produce or allow to be produced by any machine or device, or any combination of same, on public property, a noise level more than ten dBA above the local ambient at a distance of twenty-five feet or more… 25 feet Not 2.5+ miles.

53. Wow, Kanye has the bass turned way up. People in Ingleside, West Portal and Lake Merced are upset. The speakers must be projected out their way. It’s loud in Central Richmond, but only slightly more than past years. The problem is the bass is so hard up, the actual singing is difficult to understand which is a shame. You would think the promotors could hire some decent sound engineers to fix the over projection of the bass.

54. @ JSutton: We can only hope.

    @ ALY: Laws don’t matter in this city when it comes to money. You won’t receive any cooperation whatsoever from either SFPD, City Hall or Another Planet Entertainment; they’re all too busy laughing at us on their way to the bank. Welcome to the new San Francisco.

55. Worry not, people of The Richmond. One of Eric Mar’s spokespeople said Thursday on KQED-FM that people from Mar’s office would be monitoring activities throughout the weekend because he is very concerned about the impact the concert will have on residents and wants to ensure things do not get out of hand (I’m paraphrasing). I feel better already.

56. @phil
    I find some of your comments disingenuous and lame.
    You said, “I dare you. the amount of trash lying on the ground, and the gross disrespect for GG Park by many of those concert-goes is nothing short of outrageous. ”
    Outrageous is the fact all the trash is picked up during and after each night till 4 am. The park is actually cleaner than the show started. Some selfish residences even bring out household trash, toss it into the bushes and sidewalks next to the park, knowing it will be picked up the next day? Old vacuums, TV’s , flourencent lights just to name some items.
    I have pictures if you care to share your email address?
    You might want to write some actual truths in your lack luster rants.
    Rennet this city is ours as citizens and helping each other with facts instead of fear mongering gets us to a better place.
    The truth will set you free!

57. I couldn’t hear the bass that much, north of the park in the Central Richmond. However, it seemed like Kanye was yelling and had a lot of autotune. Then again, I am not a Kanye fan. I am looking forward to hearing Tom Petty tonight. I am going to have a wee bbq and listen in my backyard.

58. Autotune… So that must have been Kanye yelling M__F__ across the neighborhood at 9 PM. My enterprising corner store was open late in anticipation of the concertgoers, so I was able to bathe in his artistry (and get late night ice cream, by the light of the full moon).

59. For the most part I agree with Karen, J and the business owner. OL and HSB are great events that I have attended on occasion. I have lived in the Inner Richmond since 1999 and feel lucky to have events such as these within walking distance. Some people will always complain and refuse to see these large events as anything but a hassle. Events that other people enjoy bother and inconvenience me on occasion. We all don’t like everything that others enjoy. The desire of some individuals to crush the fun of others because of a small inconvenience is saddening and all stems from the insidious new belief that some people have that their individual desires are more important than anyone else.

60. It would be interesting to see how many supporters for this event live in Inner Richmond (out of the direct “shock zone”) versus those who are in thick of the action in the Central and Outer Richmond.

61. The only real unpleasantness on this thread is the Administrator’s admonishment to tone down the unpleasantness. This follows her shutting down the Comments on the story about the cops giving out tickets in front of Angelina’s because of similar concerns.

    I’ve read most of the Comments. Nobody has engaged in casual racial slurs or vicious threats. If the Comments are heated, it’s because we have violently different opinions. It’s a good discussion — why thwart it?

    Sarah, everyone appreciates the terrific job you do with this blog. But let’s have a free and open discussion on the topics you so ably portray. If people feel anybody has gone over the line, they’ll let ’em know.

    And if anybody disagrees with me, then have it.

62. @tahoejoe: the great for profit event should not intrude into peoples’ houses and lives in 5 neighborhoods.
    That is not a small inconvenience, that is an violation of the residents right to peace and quiet in their own homes. HSBG was a gift to the City, so it gets much more good will and it is hardly ever that obnoxiously loud. OL is not a public event; it is not a community event; it is not for good cause event; it is not even a 1 day event! It is huge ; and for the people who had bought the tickets it is fun and for the organizers it is profit; but for the neighborhoods it is 40 hours of severe noise pollution. So when some of us ask to tone it down a tat, we are not being mean, or failing to appreciating the great cultural achievement that OL claims to be; or begrudge people their good times. We are asking for reasonable accommodation; to do these events in a way that respects others right not to be assaulted in their own homes by a kanye west yelling m*** f***** .

63. I agree completely with Bob. I haven’t seen anything except healthy expressions of opinon. No personal attacks.

    @Franz. I get your point, but the Inner Richmond is not immune. On year we woke up to a drunk sleeping under our tree in front of the house. A neighbor checked to see if he was alive and we called the police on a non-emergency basis. Before the SFPS arrived, he got up and took a leak on the tree and walked away. My kids thought it was amusing. The SFPS arrived while I was hosing down the sidewalk.

    No harm done. I considered it a consequence of living in an urban environment.

    Before moving to The Richmond I lived in both North Beach (Grant and Green) and Cow Hollow. Before moving to SF, I have lived in both urban and rural locations, Colorado, Iowa, Mexico City.

    San Francisco is a very popular city. I don’t think people can expect that it will be as calm as the suburbs at all times.

64. I must say I’m quite pleasantly surprised today (Saturday). After last night’s barrage of unpleasant sound, I expected to be blasted all the way to the Underworld today here in West Portal. But we haven’t heard anything at all and it’s already 5:30 PM. There was an article in the Chronicle this morning about turning down the noise, especially the bass, and maybe the Festival organizers read it and actually heeded the suggestion! Anyway we’re fine out here and hope this courteous lack of noise continues through the night.

65. Rockin out to Tom Petty Reguge on my back deck. Outside Lands is awesome and they need more of these concerts. Music brings people together and I love the noise! Gives some life to the area. It ends at very reasonable hour and I don’t mind all the craziness. You NIMBYs are such party poopers.

66. We live at the entrance/exit @ 30th and Fulton and this has been the most improved year, thus far. Year #1 (for us) was nightmarish on SFUSD back-to-school weekend (two kids…Monday wasn’t fun), so we appreciate that they moved it one week earlier. We also noticed the crowds are a bit more tame–so far no one has relieved themselves or chugged a 12 pack in our driveway, as we’ve witnessed in the past. SFPD also has setup a barrier with officer at Cabrillo so that only residence can drive into the block (they made us show ID when returning), and, it is the first year a clean-up crew worked the street in daylight picking up trash. Overall big improvement.

    We can’t avoid it, so try to embrace it and though not all of the artists in the lineup fit our taste, hearing Disclosure live, and just steps away (for free) was pretty cool.

    10:30pm and singing hipsters still pouring up the block.

67. There was no noise issue out here in West Portal today, so it was obviously a solvable issues. And, just to note, last night the level of noise was not “minor inconvenience,” but major interference.

68. I live on the Great Hwy near Sloat.

    Last night (Friday) was incredibly loud. Could hear not only bass, but snare and vocals.
    Tonight I have not heard a thing. Incredible. That tells me it was way too loud last night and that the sound mix was totally tweakable to reduce the intrusion.

    One other observation. The event ends at 10PM, but the noise and commotion continues for another couple of hours. Traffic, revelers, litterbugs, career public tinklers, car stereos, etc are really loud as the attendees leave the park and the city.

    Perhaps they should shut it down an hour earlier, at 9PM, just like NPS did with the fire pits.

69. We could hear the event all day everywhere the building. It was loud but not as bad as yesterday; at least it did not penetrate ear plugs with window closed; Friday it did. It is tweekable but I think it also depends on how the winds blow and fog goes.

    @Andy – it was suggested to them to shut it down earlier a few years ago at a community meeting . I think someone asked to shut it down at 7 on Sundays. They said this sort of event needs to go into the night, but I think that is they moved it so it does not coincide with back to school. And if I am not mistaken they shut it down now a little earlier, I think it used to go past 10pm.

70. I must say it is discouraging how comments about the noise are treated with contempt by some people. Understand we are not hearing the actual music, but only the vibrations. I think some understanding and consideration for the festival’s effect on neighbors would be kind, and putting people down for commenting on the noise and other disturbances is unkind. We have empathy for concert goers, but I think neighbors deserve some empathy as well. In general, the internet has become a cruel place in many instances.

71. @Ally & @JSutton: Thank you. I agree with both your posts. It’s 12:34 p.m. on Sunday and I can hear some music at 18th and California but it’s not bone-rattling; I would never complain about this level of sound. After tonight it’ll all be over for another year, people will stop pissing on the bushes in front of my apartment and the urine smell will go away (along with the pissers, I can only hope). Meantime, I’m going to attempt to get to Stern Grove to hear the amazing Darlene Love. Now THAT’s music! And guess what? For all those who live 4 miles away from Stern Grove, you don’t have to have it shoved into your ears if you don’t want to hear it. And that’s the way it should be for any concert here. I know I won’t change any minds, this is just my opinion.

72. Please end the festival on Sunday by 7 PM. Some of us have to get up at 4:45 am Monday morning. Ending at 9:45 + another 2 hours of noise is unacceptable on a work night.

73. Pingback: Outside Lands recap – how did the neighborhood fare? | Richmond SF Blog

74. As a property owner I can sympathize with the neighbors surround OSL. Having urine, vomit, and trash on your lawn, is never fun, nor is cleaning up after other people. Having to deal with a loud party across the street can also be annoying. The music and associated noises of a gathering of people can drive you crazy. So I have a few suggestions to the neighbors of Golden Gate Park.

    If you are upset that people are parking in your drive way, blocking you in. Then why don’t you just park your own car in your drive way and solve both problems at once. That seems like a logical and simply solution to your problem.

    If the ‘noise’ is too much for you to handle, buy a pair of ear plugs. They cost 1.25$ for a dozen. I live on a California street on the cable car tracks, above a bar which is across the street from another bar. I would trade you that noise for 365 days versus what you have to deal with for 3. And yet I sleep like a baby every night with a pair of earplugs in. Try it, they work..

    If you are concerned about your house, lawn neighborhood, try organizing with your neighbors. Take turns sitting on your front porch for a couple of hours and watch each others backs. You can’t make the city or the organizers care more about your home then you do. Take some responsibility and protect it.

    The last thing I will say is this. You live by the park and so you probably use it more then anyone else. If that’s the case how can you justify trying to shut down an event that donates 1.25 million dollars to the department of Parks and Recs every year? For the 3rd year in a row they have to trim their budget by 3.5 million dollars. That means less money for the park, which means less services for the park. This one event covers a 1/3 of that lost money. Now those lawns can get mowed, and those bathrooms can get cleaned, and the park can get once again be used for it’s true purpose, the largest homeless camping ground in the country. But I don’t hear anyone complaining about that..

75. <>

    I know I’m revealing my flair for the obvious, but what if you want to actually GO somewhere with your car?

    It’s not only Outside Lands. Every time there’s some event out here (foot races, mainly) I know there’s a 50/50 chance I’m going to get blocked in. So I hop on the bus. End of the world? No. Completely unnecessary? Yes.

    How can people be so inconsiderate? We should be able to give them tickets by simply snapping a photo with the license plate and sending it to the DMV.

76. Let’s be clear, nobody is “donating” out of their own goodwill and compassion.

    While the money received would be beneficial for the Rec and Park, it is hard to see where this money actually goes towards. Most of the major and visible park improvements come from the voter approved bonds of 2012 Parks Bond ($195m) and 2008 Clean and Safe Parks Bonds ($117m). Rec and Park budget is $102m for 13′-14′ and $88m for 12′-13′. Which equates to about <2% (~$2m for 2014) of their budget.

    Surely Rec and Park can and should be charging more for this event. Our own Cabrillo Playground still had to fundraise for furniture etc. (of which $5,000 OSL donated) because the bonds and budget does not cover such items.

    As a 20-something year old, I enjoy and listen to many of these musicians. I have attended my fair share of concerts and can tolerate and understand the noise, crowds, and garbage that comes with such type of events. Living in the city my entire life, I also understand that we host a myriad of events that contribute to the liveliness and culture, that is only found in such a city.

    Yet, I also empathize with many of the commenters about the small and large inconveniences. As many have pointed out, we live in the City not the suburbs, yet they themselves do not recognize that there are diverse groups of people living in the City. Many who cannot afford to attend OSL or similar events (and no, listening to the bass vibrate does not constitute enjoying/listening to the music), many who have to work nights and weekends to serve you/us so that we can enjoy living in the city, many who are parents, many who can only take public transportation, etc.

77. “Please end the festival on Sunday by 7 PM. Some of us have to get up at 4:45 am Monday morning. Ending at 9:45 + another 2 hours of noise is unacceptable on a work night.”

    And other people don’t work at night? What about the many bars and restaurants that have people working at night on a Sunday?

    There’s this strange inability of people to remember that “work” is not always during day hours, and many people work in the evenings.

    Your need to get up at 4:45 to work on a Monday doesn’t outweigh the need for a bartender to work until 1:45 am on a Monday morning serving patrons. That is very important to understand.

78. ???

    What do other people working at night have to do with someone having to get up at 4:45 in the morning after OS has kept them awake until midnight?

    Once again, J, you’ve totally missed the point.

    “That is very important to understand.”

79. People would like the festival shut down early because the noise prevents them from getting to sleep early so they can get up early to go to work.

    They forget that jobs depend on the concert going until 10pm on a Sunday; there are people there working up until the very end. There are people working after the show whose paycheck depend on tips from those very patrons at bars and restaurants on both sides of the park who stay later, thus providing more money to people working late.

    The point is, your 4:45 am job is no more important than people working until 1:45am. Shutting it down early affects their jobs.

80. But what if those late-night workers start their shift at 7:30 PM? Wouldn’t they benefit whether patrons stream out at 8 or 10?

    And what about those whose shifts end at 9:30? They are missing out on all those tips they would have gotten if the concert ended at 8.

    At some point this late-night-worker argument gets absurd. The important thing is that most of us work during the day, we have to get up early in the morning, and late-night noise interferes with our sleep.

81. This is just another argument for the sake of arguing from J, Bob. J loves this, and is usually the first person posting every year to try and get people riled up. The concert is over now, but J will see how much he can continue to “teach” everyone in order to get something going again.

82. Come on everybody, what’s the big deal. I went to the festival & had to get up at 5am for work on Monday. It’s over now. Now let’s start a new argument over HSB.

83. I’m happy with strong arguments from whatever source, and the OL pro-and-con debate has no shortage on either side.

    But the “what about the insomniac Uber driver who’s paying his way through college?” argument doesn’t seem to be one of those.

84. The city mandates that the event be shut down at 10pm, partially because of actual noise regulations regarding the level of noise that can be heard after that time. The city doesn’t have noise regulations about shutting down concerts, clubs, outside events with noise, etc. at 7:00pm because most people don’t go to work at 4:45 am; most people go to work between the hours of 7-10.

    If there are 1000 people working the event as guards, vendors, stagehands and crowd control, those people lose 3 hours of actual real live take-home pay if you shut it down at 7:00, totalling thousands of dollars. Going till 10 is reasonable in my opinion.

    Daniel, I argue this issue because I care for my city and love it with all my heart. I believe very strongly that this event and events like it are one of the main reasons this city is world-class and the best city in the world in which to live. I have lived in towns where the night life was greatly harmed and in one case completely ruined because neighbors shut it down because of their own concerns, and I very much am afraid that could happen here, so yes, I argue for it passionately.

    SF is already losing clubs downtown because neighbors, who knew they were moving next to a nightclub, moved in next door and started complaining about the noise. There was a great article in the SF Chronicle about this last week; V/SF, a club downtown which had been there for many years was shut down because of a single individual, an 80yr old neighbor, who couldn’t get to sleep even after the club completely revamped its soundproofing. That club now sits vacant and no club owner or promoter will use it for fear of getting sued. So yes, I am concerned about events like this getting curtailed or moved, because San Francisco is the greatest city in the world and events like this are one of the reasons why.

85. And that’s a huge problem: in economically moribund San Francisco, where finding any kind of work is almost impossible, guards, vendors, stagehands and crowd control staff are so starved for employment that the three extra hours of work per year from OL make a major, major difference in their household budgets, /s

    Here’s what I find ultimately compelling about the no-OL argument. When you buy a house, or rent an apartment, you look around a neighborhood and you think, What goes on here? What might possibly go on here?

    And if you’re downtown and you see clubs, bars, etc. and you decide to live there, then OK, the late-night noise, occasional brawling patrons, etc. come with the territory.

    But if it’s the year 2000 and you decided to buy or rent on 29th bet. Anza and Balboa — or even 24th bet. Fulton and Cabrillo — was an event with the impact of an OL a reasonable expectation for you? And the answer has to be no.

    So the argument about “you chose the City, suck it up” doesn’t resonate for me because many of us didn’t choose THAT City, but a different one. And if you find yourself living with many more dark-skinned people than you had expected, your racism doesn’t give you permission to complain. But if you find you have Woodstock in your backyard because certain parties want it there, then you do — even if the event is just for some days in the summer.

86. I suggest starting here to accomplishing the goal that our Entertainment Commission show us via bona fide audit (*not* a self-reporting survey) what the *true* costs of OL, HSB, and other large outside entertainment venues cost the citizens of this city – in addition to whether or not those venues are adhering to city code in a way that does not cause unreasonable interference.

    The Commission’s next meeting is August 19, at 5:30pm, in room #416 at City Hall.
    One can watch Entertainment Commission meetings live; the link is at the bottom of the home page.

    Note: the Commission website is dense with multiple PDF’s – one really has to dig around for information that should be right up front, like meeting venues, times, and so on. To aid those who are interested, I post the following information:

    San Francisco Entertainment Commission
    http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=335

    bios of the individual members of the Entertainment Commission
    http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=3916
    Of note: a large % of these Commissioners come directly out of the Entertainment industry, or have strong associations to the entertainment industry.

    Main Entertainment Commission office and some Commissioner’s contact information
    http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=338

    Here is a link to public notices and meetings (PDFs)
    http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=2541

    Here is the Entertainment Commission phone #: and hours
    Phone: (415) 554-6678
    Fax: (415) 554-7934
    Office Hours: Monday to Friday, 9 A.M. – 5 P.M.

    Here is a link to the following documents:
    http://www.sfgov2.org/index.aspx?page=340

    1) Administrative Code, Chapter 90
    2) Charter of City & County of San Francisco Section 4.117
    San Francisco Municipal Police Code (See Article 15)
    3) EC Venue Complaint Questionnaire (PDF)
    4) Permit Applications & Forms
    5) Policies & Rules
    6) Entertainment Commission – Principles of Mediation (PDF)
    7) Entertainment Commission’s Good Neighbor Policy (PDF)
    8) Hearing Procedures – 9 pgs (PDF)
    9) Neighborhood Outreach Policy – 2 pgs (PDF)
    10) Statement of Incompatible Activities, GSA – 12 pgs (PDF)
    11) Safety and Security Best Practices Manuel – 18 pgs (PDF)
    12) Civil Grand Jury Report
    13) Annual Report 2012 – 2013, 17 pgs (PDF)

    Reading the above documents has been more than enlightening (for those who enjoy such tasks); my reading of these docs clearly indicates that the Entertainment Commission needs to be respectfully asked some hard questions, so that the citizens of this great city can gain more transparency re: what the true costs of some of these concerts and other entertainment venues are.

87. Phil, we unfortunately went down this road a few years ago and were informed that the Entertainment Commission was not involved in any of this. It was Rec and Parks. Several people went to hearings and made comments about the problems and Phil Ginsburg and his cronies listened to the speakers, gave no response, and completely ignored what was said. You can find video of these hearings online.

    It’s become increasingly creepy how many people in public office continue to look the other way and pretend nothing is happening, even as the concert grows. It’s also beginning to look very, very fishy.

    I can tell you that the only way this will be resolved is in court. Until neighbors file a civil suit and laws are forced to be followed, there won’t be any changes. The authorities involved are too irresponsible, and they’ve shown that over and over. I think it’s too bad that it has to go this far, but Another Planet Entertainment and the City of San Francisco have left neighbors in several districts with no other choice due to their continual lack of response.

    Richmond District residents are known for being apathetic; It’s refreshing to see someone actually act rather than just complain, as you did in your posting.

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