Neighbors’ guide to the Outside Lands Festival in Golden Gate Park

The entrances will be closed to cars, not closed to the public, correct? A big distinction, I think.

@Alai – Yes, to car traffic. Thx

Sarah B.

Thanks for positing this! Whatever you think of the event, Outside Lands is very disruptive to neighborhood life. I grew up in New York, where they have tons of events in Central Park, and the transportation and infrastructure surrounding Central Park and Golden Gate Park just aren’t comparable. Our neighborhoods just aren’t built to handle something like this. Nevertheless, it’s just one weekend a year, and it brings a lot of joy to many people, so let’s all have fun and get through it!

Can’t wait. Should be a crazy weekend!

I go to lots of concerts (mostly Fillmore, GAMH, etc) and I happen to really lke most of these bands. Have for years and because I live a few blocks from the Polo Fields/Speedway which has some very strange and amazing acoustical properties, have had the pleasure of hearing sounds checks and songs by many favorite artists. However, I would like to know why the city thinks that thye ahve the right to FORCE residents of this neighborhood to endure this for ELEVEN HOURS A DAY for THREE DAYS STRAIGHT? No matter how much you like the bands, the loud noise and the “thump-thump=thump” of the bass — which I can sometimes feel in the walls of my flat — is a from of torture. (The U.S. military aactually blasts rock music TO torture captives — serious fact.) I am not elderly, I am not ill, I do not have small children — and yet my only option is really to leave my home. WHY should I have to do that — so that a promoter can make a bundle? If I have to leave my home to avoid a aural nuisance like this, surely the right of Eminent Domain should kick in and I should be compensated for having to do so — or put up with this. We have no choice in the matter — and the city signed a FIVE-year contract. they didn’t wait to see how htings went, no – they went ahead and committed themselve — me, my neighbors — to this for five years. This is one of the worst excamples of railroading that I can recall. Mr. Ginsberg has a LOT to answer for. I hear he thinks he’s going to run for Mayor down the line. Well, I won’t forget all the awful things he’s done to “my” park…and how he’s trying to turn a city park that should be free into a rental space and a private country club.

I hear ya stoirin. I’m up a few blocks from the park between Balboa and Anza and the thumpin bothers me too, although I don’t think it’s as bad as what you’re experiencing right near the park. I’m probably going to take a day trip to Santa Cruz just to get away, but obviously not everybody has that luxury. It does suck, and the idea that promoters are making big money out of disrupting our neighborhood life is sickening. I can’t imagine what it must be like for the elderly, disabled, or parents of small children. Hopefully, through this awesome blog, our voices will be heard and the city will consider community impact a bit more when they plan these events. Hear that, Supervisor Mar?

It’s going to continue to 9-10 pm? that’s really a bit much!

HSBG has to stop at either 7 or 8 — so why don’t these guys have to? If the bands stop at 9:45 it takes another hour for everyone to clear out — the noise, the traffic. and people with little kids need to have them in bed before 9:45! Also, have you seen all the “outside lands” traffic signs that have been posted throughout and near the Park?

Lot of time and effort went into the signage to try to keep people from getting lost/frustrated, traffic flowing. I sincerely applaud the effort but just one problem…between the colored graphic that’s behind the words and the SMALL size of the type, few peoplein traffic will ever see them — or,if they do, they’ll be driving past them before they can possibly read what they say!

Honestly, you just have to wonder…

By the way, I believe these comments about the time they end were made last year — and not just by me.

It’s almost 2 p.m. and they started a little while ago — so it is actually four days that the music lasts Though the sound checks usually last somewhere between 1-2 hours.

wasn’t too clear in the posting above. Sorry, I meant that the sound checks started a little while ago.

I just got a spam email from Assemblymember Ma indicating that Great Highway will be closed too. I’m not sure if it’s always been that way, I just don’t remember. In any case, 19th Avenue should be a nice little adventure this weekend. Good thing there aren’t 300k people flooding the western part of the city…

Well, I for one am very happy they are here. I have no problem putting up with the music for a few days; it’s the price you pay for living in a city. Cities are noisy. Even parks inside cities, sometimes. They are paying a huge fee to the city to do this, and it is a monumental effort to do this. If you expect to be in bed peacefully at 9:45 pm every single night of the year, then you shouldn’t live in the city. A three day event will not hurt you; this is some pretty serious Nimbyism.

Of course we have no choice in the matter; its a good thing. What kind of a concert promoter would want to set up a concert that benefits the city and which reminds people of how cool San Francisco is to live in if he has to submit his proposal to a community group or some rediculousness like that? This isn’t a permanent business; it’s an event.

And no, it is not torture. Ask the thousands of people who will be dancing joyfully to this music (of which I will probably be one) if it is torture and you will come away with a different answer.

Remember…cities can sometimes be noisy for a short period of time. There’s nothing wrong with that. It’s a city. If I wanted peace and quiet every day of the year, without fail, I’d move to Guerneville or something. What, 362 days of the year of peace and quiet isn’t good enough?

When Pearl Jam played, I closed my windows and took a shower but still could hear them through my teeth. That was the same day I had to call non-emergency services to get the dealers off my front door, several times.

Last year was almost tolerable. Could that be due to mellower music, cooler weather, or a bad economy? Or perhaps due to all the tenants in the building all calling non-emergency services at any slight provocation?

Do we seriously have to deal with this every single year? Until 10 pm?

I hate it when money is more important than people.

It’s Thursday evening at 6:17, I live on Fulton near 26th, and the music is already blasting from the park and the festival doesn’t even start until tomorrow! I’m sick and tired of going through this every year. I depend on street parking, and cannot return to my home until 11:00 at night (Monday morning I’ll have to be up at 5:00 a.m. for work) while this festival is in effect. I feel like this has gone far enough, and I blame Eric “Happy Meals” Mar for this. 50,000 people expected this year? What kind of moron would stick that many people in a park the size of the Golden Gate and force neighbors to deal with all this chaos for three days in a row? It’s a disaster waiting to happen. Last year there were fights in the street, people camping up and down Fulton and partying all night, and bumper to bumper traffic for the duration. I don’t buy the money issue… this concert could be held at Bill Graham or plenty of other places in S.F. To my neighbors: why are we continuing to tolerate this when we pay rent and are residents of the Richmond district? Hardly Strictly Bluegrass will be next. I’m ready to pursue this legally, and if others want to act rather than just accept it because “there’s nothing we can do about it,” then let’s set something up. This is a real kick in the ass to have to deal with this every year, and my communications with Mar show that he is more interested in organizing, attending and encouraging it than dealing with the complaints from the residents in his district.

Don’t be upset with the music. We live in a city, and these festivals bring a lot of joy to more people than they irritate. Maybe you should get a ticket and enjoy the show! Outsidelands also brings in a ton of money for our city, in permit fees, tourists, tax, etc. It’s not just the promoters making money.

I love Outsidelands, and I hope it never leaves GGP! It’s the greatest thing here, and if you fail to see that, move!

Yeah, Jenn,” joy” to the people who don’t have to live next door to it. Spare me. Outside Lands can bring in the same money from indoors than it does in the middle of a city block park. This isn’t the sixties anymore, if you want to create another Woodstock, then YOU move to an area that can accomodate it! Re: bringing money to our city, I work for the city of San Francisco and just gave up 15% of my salary. I have a right to some space, peace and quiet during my weekends off, as do my neighbors.

Dear “J” and “Jenn” — I do not mean to be disrespectful, but I’m afraid you have swallowed the Kool-Aid.

There are some very, very serious issues involved here.

Let me try to outline what I think is the most important one:
1. Golden Gate Park is not private property. It is a PUBLIC park. You and I and every other resident of this city pays an entry fee to it in the form of taxes.

2. Rec and Park have decided — without any vote — that they will FENCE THE PUBLIC OUT of a major section of our public park for a total of NINE days (7 for Lindley meadow, 9 for Speedway and the Polo Fields) — so that a PRIVATE business can come in and use OUR lands to hold a for-profit concert which they will make lots of money from.

3. On top of that, they do it in the midst of a quiet, residential neighborhood. They do it in summer, when children are out of school. They do it in an area that commonly hosts small kids’ soccer lessons and gaems, birthday parties, BBQs and has many people who run and bicycle through it every day.

4. Moreover, they also subject the residents of this neighborhood (without ever asking their approval) to major inconveniences in terms of traffic, and the thousands of people who come to this event damage the Park. (At the PAR and other meetings, we were assured by Ginsburg, the head of Rec& Park that thAnother Planet, the promoter, would pay to have any damage repaired. In three years, I have never seen any resodding, reseeding — anything. I was told last week by someone who is in a position to know that the monies that Another Planet pays to rpair this damage has been going to the General Rec and Park fund — to pay for needs of parks in OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS.

so — think about that. Our backyard and we, the residents of this neighborhood, are having our public lands appropriated, damaged, having to bear 33+ hours of noise over 3+ days (I am referring to the 3+ hours of sound checks) — and we are not even benefitting?

You may love the music for 3 days. But you are not the only person i your neighborhood. There are ppeople with little babies and small children. There are older people for whom the sound of this music is like torture. There are people who are ill, lying in bed with cancer, etc. There is even me, who would have worked from home tomorrow (the 1 day a week that I can) but during the sound checks this evening, the floor beneath my feet was vibrating and I could feel the sound in my walls – and I live TEN blocks from the Polo Fields — and I actually like most of these bands.

Had I chosen to buy a ticket to go hear them at a venue, great. But I was NOT given that choice.

There are other issues, too — such as the fact that the promoters of Outside Lands are granted a special license to sell alcohol during this event. They were granted it because they told Rec and park that they would give them a cut of the money. However, PAR discovered more than a YEAR ago that there has never been ANY audit at all of the amount of money that is made from the alcohol.

Ginsburg is running his own fiefdom. He has decided that the west side of GG Park (which the plan for GG Park states is to be “wild”) is to be used as a cash cow. We are now to have 60-foot stadium-style lighting in the soccer fields, which will have al lkinds of adverse effects — but be very nice for all the many, many kids who don’t even live in S.F. who use our fields — but not nice for the residents who live near there or the wildlife. WE are to have rubber grass — which, is another ploy by some special interests (tires are highly toxic, and tire compaies have to pay huge fees to dispose of them…wouldn’t it be wonderful if you culd convince people to put them in the midst of their parks? And, since S.F. is kown throughout the country as a leader in environmental issues, if you can say that it is in Golden Gate Park in S.F., wouldn’t everyon think that is just fine?!) Never mind that no worms or insect or birds can use that…never mind that the water can’t penetrate it…etc..

And thenthere’s the water treatment plant that is proposed…along with for-profit concerts…

Not to mention the fact that almost all of the buildings in GG Park are now used all week long NOT by non-profit civic groups and clubs who alwyas used them for free, which is what was intended — but are now being rented for LARGE sums of money for events.

This all is a part of a clear strategy that also included the big push to charge everyone — including S.F. residents — to visit the Botanical Gardens (after a HUGE outcry is twas decided that S.F. residents may visit for free, but people outside the city must pay).

I know this was long — and this is, of course, my opinion. But this is YOUR park. It belongs to YOU. And me. And just as I would be outraged if someone came to me and announced that my own home was to be fenced off and i couldn’t enter it for 9 days because some company decided they wanted to throw a party for their clients that was going to make them a lot of money in new business, I am outraged by this ‘pay to play in the Park” strategy that is being foisted upon us …and the way that the many objections that have been made to it have been completely ignored.

peopel saying about concerts in other cities. those big concerts in Central park in nyc arefree.

Thanks for an incredible post, Sue. To me this is also an issue of boundaries; when I go to a concert, and I went to three in the last year, they’re usually held indoors, and I don’t force others to hear it if they don’t choose to. I’ve lived in the Richmond District for over ten years, and I love the area, but I also make it a point to respect my neighbors (for example, turning my television down at night in order to not keep them awake). This is part of living in a city with a lot of other people and respecting their boundaries. I don’t see this reflected in either the Outside Lands or Hardly Strictly Bluegrass concerts; not only does it invade others’ lives re: blasting music for three days, it also prevents parking which doesn’t even make it possible to come home to my apartment at a decent hour to get enough sleep to work the next day (I’m a nurse and work a pretty stressful unit at SFGH). When I moved to the Richmond District, this wasn’t a problem; it’s only existed for the last four or five years, and I’m actually beginning to dread August and October now. I’ve made arrangements this year to 1.) pay for and stay in a hotel tomorrow evening, because I know I won’t find parking when I leave work at 3:30; (2) and stay with some friends in Berkeley Saturday and Sunday. I would like to have stayed home to relax and enjoy my weekend because I know how crazy the unit is going to be next week; unfortunately, although I am a resident in this district and I pay rent, I’m unable to do that. Something seems wrong with that picture to me.

One more thing, Sue; your posting really hit home when you mentioned having cancer. I was diagnosed three years ago with lung cancer, and after some pretty grueling chemo and radiation treatments, I’ve so far stayed in remission, and hope to continue to. During my treatment, I DID experience both these festivals as I was too stick to leave my apartment, and it was hell. I remember trying to sleep just to get away from the sound of constant thumping, and being unable to. I’m wondering if “J” or “Jenn” experienced that, if she’d be quite as “joyful” about the festival as she is now.

For those opposed to “Outside Lands” (and I’m among them), you do have a limited recourse. As soon as the noise becomes deafening, as soon as the drunks, traffic and trash become intolerable, call the hotline at: 379-9063. Also call the police, and Supervisor’s Mar’s office. Unless you forcibly voice your opposition, the assumption is that the neighborhood docilely accepts the situation forced upon it.

I agree completely. I got nowhere by calling the police last year (in fact, they agreed with me but said to call City Hall!). Tonight during the sound check I called the 379 number and got a voicemail machine! I AM on Eric Mar’s Facebook page, and have certainly not made my feelings about this a secret. His response was a curt “call my office if you have any suggestions,” and he continues to promote OL as well as post how excited he is about it. This is a man I will not make the mistake of voting for again; I thought he was a vast improvement over McGoldrick, but now I’m beginning to wonder. If people want to make change, we have to be willing to band together and do something about it, otherwise everything stays the same. And, as I type this at almost 9:00 p.m., the thumping from Speedway Meadow is starting up again… 🙂

To those who say that it’s only a 3+ day concert and we should just enjoy the music or be tolerant of those who have come from far and wide to enjoy it, I say: People who pay to attend the concert have made a choice to commune with 60,000 (this years’ estimated daily number of attendees) other concertgoers. But as another poster noted: Most of us who live the Richmond (or Sunset) have NOT chosen to experience this; it is being visited upon us. I live at 18th near California–not close to the Polo Fields–and the first two years of this long weekend were horrible. LOUD sound waves of music until nearly 11 p.m. (I don’t care what the posted end time was; it never ended by 10 p.m.). I called the PD and the OL “tip line” several times. The tip line was either busy or I got an answering machine. I called the Richmond PD and the cop who answered told me I was the first person who called to complain about the noise. Oh really??? I called him at 10:15 p.m., after listening to it all evening. There is no way I was the first person who complained about it.

Like another poster, I am not an old fart and I like some of the bands that will be playing. I just don’t like the fact that the residents here were never seriously given a fair chance to vote thumbs up or down on this. A 5-year contract is too long, and of course it will be renewed, probably for 10 years next time, and to hell with the neighbors. If the promoters really wanted to demonstrate good faith with the effected neighborhoods, they would spend some of their profits on monitoring the decibel level at EVERY stage venue for the entire time bands are playing, and coordinate with the PD and their tip line that if a number of calls came in complaining about the noise, they would dial back the decibel level IMMEDIATELY. If neighbors saw that kind of commitment and responsiveness, I think people would be more amenable to this event.

A bit more: I do not find the HSBF to be nearly as noisy as this event is. I used to attend, but the last couple of years, especially, have just gotten way too crowded. In the years I went, the crowds were mellow, lots of families, just a pleasant crowd. I don’t know if it’s still as peaceful, given the crush of people (if it’s free, they will come). Obviously, noise is my major problem with these concerts, but if I lived closer to the park I know I’d be just as concerned with–and upset by–the trash and street traffic issues. It’s up to the promoters, not the residents, to make sure the neighborhoods are taken care of. And in that the promoters have failed miserably so far. I want people to have fun, I want them to enjoy the music they love–but I want them to be able to do this without disrupting other citizens who chose not to partake. Is this even possible?

Until about 9 months ago, Jake Mcgoldrick’s daughter in law was Mar’s chief aide. (she now works for Rec and Park). truth is she was terrific…but now I know why when Mar was running so many people said he was just a cloen of Mcgoldrick.T
heyre all in each others pockets.

Thanks for the thoughtful posts. I get really tired of people dismissing anyone who has a problem with this event as being old and cranky and “nimby.” That’s just too easy. The questions, to me is this:
Do we, the citizens of San Francisco control the government and city hall — do they work for US the citizens and taxpayers (that’s the basic idea behind a democratic form of government, last time I checked…)

Or does City Halland Rec&Park tell us what they are going to do and order us around? If the people of the Richmond district had been allowed to vote on this and had voted for it — then that’s demoracy and accepting the will of the majority comes with that.

But we never got a vote. There wasn’t even a 1-year “trial” of this — they just signed a 5-year contract and we were told “we don’t care what you think, this is what we’re doing to you.”

Uh — no. THEY are here to serve US, the people who pay the taxes and their salaries. And if they are mistaken about that point, then we had all better make sure we are registered, and that we vote.

We need to let all those politicians who think the (LARGE) Richmond district is somewhere “out there” lost in the fog, and that we don’t matter and that they can pretty much do anything they want out here — find out that we understand that our neighborhood houses some of the city’s greatest cultural treasures recreational assets and critical community facilities (GGPark, Lincoln Park de Young, Palace of Legion of Honor, Baker and Ocean Beaches, Cliff House, Mountain Lake Park, Academy of Sciences, Botanica Gardens, Presidio, Veteran’s hospital, CPMC) — and that we’re not about to let them destroy these great treasures or restict access to people who will pay a lot of money to use them.

That is not why the San Franciscans 100 years ago created them. And we need to honor the great vision that they had — the vision that made this city beautiful and so livable.

Let me chime in here and respond to Sue and others.

1) Yes, GGPark is public. That means that you have no more right to quiet from the park than people have to make noise in the park.

You are asking for 365 days of quiet a year. 362 is apparently not enough. Please try thinking about it in this way. The official time the music is playing is 28 hours. That is not a lot of music over the course of a year.

2) That “Private” organization you talk about gives huge fees to the city to pay for firefighters, teachers, and policemen’s salaries. The City will collect $1.05 million for rent and $1 per ticket or 10 percent of sales. That is a significant amount of cash. If the promotors stand to make a bundle off of that afterwards, then more power to them.

3) It’s quiet 363 days of the year. Nothing says it can’t be loud for a few days. Again, it’s a city. If you expect peace and quiett EVERY DAY then move to another location. Seriously. Yeah, I know it’s loud. I enjoy it. Others do not. If I wanted quiet every day of the year I’d move to Pacifica. It really is unreasonable to expect peace and quiet where you live in San Francisco every. single. day. Really . It is. Step back and think about this. It’s unreasonable to demand 24 hr a day quiet, even if it is in a park. During this event, the park will be noisy for approximately 2/tenths of one percent of the year. That is NOT too much, I’m sorry. I don’t have much pity. I live nearby, not right on the park edge, but close by.

4) Your issue is with how Park and Rec allocates the money. Perhaps you are right. This has no bearing on whether or not outside lands should operate in the park. I don’t want every single event that comes into the park to be subject to the whim of the voters; that is why we have supervisors. I seriously cannot think of anything more of an example of NIMBYism than this.

You are right, you don’t get the choice to not hear them if you stay in your house. Just like you don’t get the choice not to hear the Blue Angels, or the Pride Parade if you live on Market, or the Cherry Blossom festival if you live in Japantown, your the Fillmore Jazz festival if you live in the Fillmore, or a host of other noisy events in this wonderful noisy city of ours. I don’t want to live in a peaceful quiet place; I like the noise, and I am just as much of a tax-paying denizen of the city as you. I think it is incredibly cool that these bands are playing in the park; there are huge benefits and the drawbacks really are nothing more than temporary inconvenience. And if you don’t want temporary inconvenience, living in this city is not a good option. Your choice is to move to another city where you can have peace and quiet 365 days of the year instead of 362.

You are right. It is MY Park, and it is yours. And all of ours. We should all have a say.

So, how about for 362 days of the year, you can enjoy the park peacefully and quietly. Walk the dog…play ultimate frisbee…enjoy the great trails and the incredible scenery.

And how about for three days of the year, I (and those who agree with me) can enjoy the park noisily, with loud music and lots of partying, up to a legally mandated shutdown hour (10pm)?

I think that’s reasonable. Don’t you?

By the way, the only reason I’m posting this is because I don’t want people to get the idea that everyone in the Richmond is opposed to the noise of Outside lands. There are many of us who do enjoy it, who don’t mind the noise, and who have no problem with it. We pay taxes too, we vote; we are here as well.

I do understand that many people close by this event are disturbed by the noise. I’m not dismissing the complaints as being signs of people being too old or curmudgeonly.

I would just like to point out that there are many people who live nearby who feel that this is a net benefit to the community; it brings people from all over to enjoy a part of San Francisco that, after all, does not belong to those of us in the Richmond, even if we live nearby it. It belongs to other people in the city too. It brings in tax dollars, and it promotes the view of this city as a place where the young can be young and enjoy life. I like that; I want that in this city and it’s why I moved here.

I lived in the Castro which would shut down multiple tiumes of the year for parades and parties in the street. No one complained because thats what they were used to. But you can’t live a few miles from that in the same city and not expect it to spill over to your neighborhood, even way out in the Richmond.

The Hardly Strictly Bluegrass line up has been announced:
http://www.hardlystrictlybluegrass.com/

a far more worthy festival in my opinion

Dear “J”, I am afraid that many of your statistics are not correct. First of all, “Outside Lands” is not 28 hours of music, It is 11 hours a day which, according to the math I was taught, equals 33 hours. Not including the 3 hours of sound checks we had last night (and some more this morning. Secondly, we have no more right to quiet than people have a right to make noise? Perhaps you don’t know that every city has ordinances about noise. That people DO have the right to peace and quiet and that you can call the police if someone is “disturbing the peace” with a loud party late at night, etc. I would argue that subjecting the residents of a neighborhood, without their agreement to ounds amplified at decibel levels that are high enough to shake their floors and walls, , terrify their pets, prevent their children from sleeping, etc for 33 hours, 3 days is “disburbing the peace.”

2. It’s Quiet” 363 days of the year? Hmmm. Outside Lands itself is 3 days long and last I checked, there are 365 days in the hear so…deducting the 3 days of Outside Lands alone leaves us with 362 days. You have, perhaps forgotten about Hardly Strictly Bluegrass (which causes all the same disruption in the neighborhood, but the sound issue is better). You forget Bay-to-Breakers. The Nike Women’s Marathon, the AIDS Walk, the Breast Cancer event, the “Power to the Peaceful” concert (which wasn’t held this year)…it is not like this is the only massive event that occurs in the park and has a major impact on our neighborhood during the year. And you may not realize it but the use of Speedway/Lindley meadows for groups of thousand of people is bascially non-stop from April through October. Golden Gate Park is what it is beause of plants, trees, grass and shrubs. It was not intended for this kind of intensive non-stop battering. Soil gets compacted. Grass gets killed. Plants get trampled…people walking on hillsides erode them causing slides during rainy season…these events have MAJOR impacts…and to have Rec and Park say that they are allowing this kind of damage to be cause in order to raise money to support the parks is…so utterly contradictory and circular.

3. You seem not to understand the difference between public parks and private property or the purpose of public parks — and It is an absolute cornerstone of our democracy. These lands belong to WE, THE PEOPLE. They do not belong to the mayor or the head of Rec and Park or its Commisioners.

Let me ask you this: If PG&E were releasing gas in the park and the smell was awful and that smell filled your house and made you hugely uncomrtable and kept you from sleeping and was so disturbing that you felt you had no choice to to rent a hotel room… I somehow have a feeling that you wouldbe madder than hell, protesting it to the heavens, and demanding to be compensated for yourexpense.
Yet, somehow, because it is loud music (something that’s cool) you are willing to welcome this without any about the larger implications.

NO one has the “right” to usurp public lands and use them for their own personal profit WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE PUBLC WHO OWN THOSE LANDS. In this case, that would be the public acting through the city government. Unfortunately, the city government did not see fit to allow US to make hte choice but simply decided for us that we would have this in the heart of our neighborhood for 5 years. Please try to think this through…imagine what this means if it is allowed to continue…we could have private organizations charging to get on to Ocean Beach on nice days…making money off all of our open spaces. I realize that Rec and Park gets money out of this — and they are using that to justify their walking roughshod over us. To participate in the confiscation and abet the destruction of of the greatest urban parks in the world and to decide unilaterally to hold 2 neighborhoods hostage citizens hostage in the name of “making some money for the park” hardly makes sense and is not justifiable.

4. What you call NIMBYism is what I call honoring and respecting the character and quality of this neighborhood…and the people who CHOSE to live here because they liked it. I wonder how many neighborhood groups and how many activities you involve yourself in to improve and contribute to the neighborhood and the parks that you seem to care so much about having funded through destructive activities that bar the public from using the GG Park? If people such as yourself would volunteer their time to work in the parks, Rec and park might not have to hold this concert. I know that the GGNRA/Presidio volunteers put in MILLIONS of dollars worth of work each year (I know, because I’m one of them, and they keep very close track of the time and each year report to us on the number of hours and the dollar equivalent). I agree with you about not wanting to have every single thing be offered to vote. But I would hardly call this multi-year, multi-day event or the policy change that it heralds a “little thing.” As for trusting your supervisors, there was a move launched to recal McGoldrick because he so blatantly ignored the wishes of his constituents…and he would not be the first politician who became little more than a “yes-person” being led by developers, big business, concert promoters, other members of government who needed support for whatever deals they were working.

No, I don’t think it’s reasonable to hold an event that makes residents of this neighborhood so uncomfortable that they feel they have nochoice but ot rent a hotel room away from it.

Three-days straight is too long. And this is teh WRONG location — ask anyone who has an infant…or an elderly parent living here.

I like how the NIMBY’s use terms like ‘us’ and ‘lots’ and ‘everyone’ when they are clearly in the minority. It’s also fun to hear them refer to ‘my park’. It’s not your park, it’s our park.

Did you not know what you were getting into when you moved to San Francisco? Did you not know what living in a city entails? Do you realize that there are literally hundreds of cities and towns in the bay area that have way cheaper rent and much less ‘city life’? Do you have any idea what the population density in this city is compared to others?

Did you know that there are numerous buses, which will be passing through more frequently this weekend, and that you can get on these buses and they will take you to work, or anywhere else you want to go, for two bucks, and you won’t have to worry about parking when you get home? If you live and work in the same city, especially a city that is seven miles across, why are you driving a car to work, anyway? Don’t you love the environment like the rest of us? Won’t someone think of the children?

I’ve lived in two other California cities (San Diego and LA) and I know it’s popular to bash the transit system in SF, but you haven’t a clue how bad it can be in other areas. I love MUNI, and you should, too.

Aside from the revenue the event brings to the city coffers, think about all your beloved businesses on 9th or Balboa and know that the business these places get during events might help them keep afloat during the rest of the year because not enough locals patronize business on the same block where they live. The benefit to the community at large, yes, even the tiny part of the community that has nothing better to do than to complain about the types of events that give SF the character that attracted them here in the first place, is almost immeasurable.

I wonder how much the type of event plays into this. There are numerous marathons, bike races, etc. that close the streets and, frankly, leave more trash behind that these hipsters and hippies. Yet nobody complains about those. I don’t like many/any of the bands playing at this event but I welcome it to our city and our neighborhood. For three days a year I feel like I actually live in the middle of something other than a lazy burb overrun by tourists.

Not buying this, J. It’s a bit like saying it’s all right to listen to my neighbors shouting and screaming at each other for three days in a row because I live in a city. You also left out the other 3-4 days we have to deal with the same crowds, noise and traffic problems during the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass festival. Re: the Castro, they learned the hard way that the parties – Halloween, for instance- were only creating more damage in the neighborhood than fun. They also just recently vetoed a Britney Spears concert because of the intrusion it created in the area, and that was only a couple of hours long, not 3 days! Should we wait until similar problems start happening @ OL and HSB, because it’s only a matter of time. Still trying to understand your logic of because we live in the city, we’re “entitled” to 3 days of noise… but then you add on the Blue Angels, etc., which accounts for several more days than three.

Hey, I saw Lady Gaga twice last year. Some people like her, some people hate her. But I wouldn’t have expected everyone who didn’t want to hear her to listen to her publically for 3 days. What may be “cool” to you may be selfish and a pain in the ass to the rest of us. That’s why they have enclosed auditoriums, to give people a choice.

I’ve often thought that OL could get a lot more goodwill from the neighborhood if they offered discount/free tickets to those within a certain radius of the event; mostly those either affeted by the noise or the parking problems. I think this is why in general the people I know who also live in the neighborhood are much more tolerant of Hardly Strictly than OL. Anyone know if this is something that has ever come up?

Sue Fry:

“Let me ask you this: If PG&E were releasing gas in the park and the smell was awful and that smell filled your house and made …”

Are you out of your mind? People don’t spend hundreds of dollars to smell gas in GGP. How does this even correlate? Would the city be making any money for its general fund by selling tickets to a gas leak? Is this what you’re insinuating?

This is a simple case of two people whining vs an entire city’s will.

“NO one has the “right” to usurp public lands and use them for their own personal profit WITHOUT THE CONSENT OF THE PUBLC WHO OWN THOSE LANDS. In this case, that would be the public acting through the city government.”

Exactly. Which is why we vote. You voted, right? Are you saying that in any matter of government, everyone in the city should have a vote? You do know what representative democracy is, correct? Are you talking to your district’s rep about this?

“Unfortunately, the city government did not see fit to allow US to make hte choice but simply decided for us that we would have this in the heart of our neighborhood for 5 years.”

Believe me, they did their research. They did their environmental impact reports. The thing is, if a quarter of one percent of the people are against something, that thing is still going to happen. You’re high-and-mighty stance is a minority view. This is how things work. If you really cared about this you’d have been out collecting signatures three years ago, or heck, just a few weeks ago.

“To participate in the confiscation and abet the destruction of of the greatest urban parks in the world and to decide unilaterally to hold 2 neighborhoods hostage citizens hostage in the name of “making some money for the park” hardly makes sense and is not justifiable.”

Overly dramatic much? Like I mentioned, it’s not just money for the city. It’s money for all the vendors, all the artists, money they get that helps the economy, when you have 100’s of thousands of people unleashed in the city for a weekend. What will it take to convince you that you are being selfish and you are not interested in the common good of this great city? Why do you want to destroy that which makes this city unique?

Large, public gatherings have been a tradition in the park since the summer of love. I can’t even begin to properly rip on the people here suggesting music should be enjoyed indoors.

BTW, those of you with the impression that GGP is there solely to serve your peaceful, little, non-commercial minds, from Wikipedia: “Although the park was conceived under the guise of recreation, the underlying justification was to attract housing development and provide for the westward expansion of The City.”

If not for that commercialism and a desire to be more like New York, the park wouldn’t be there. It was artificially built on sand dunes so anyone claiming that people walking on grass are destroying the park, you’re really out of line. I’m not sure how many of us enjoy the majesty of the polo fields in our day-to-day interactions in the park, anyway.

Gotta correct some things.

1) Not counting sound checks, it’s 28 hours. If you go here:
http://myscheduler.sfoutsidelands.com/
First band starts at today, and the music shuts off at 10pm. Same thing tomorrow, and same thing Sunday, except the music shuts off at 8pm. So that’s 28. But we are quibbling.
There are specific decibels that have to be crossed before you can be cited for disturbing the peace purely for noise. If you believe the Outside Lands concerts rises to that level, please present evidence of it. Or…perhaps they have a permit? 🙂

2) It is quiet throughout the year in the vast majority of the park. This event takes over the park for three days. Parks are meant to be enjoyed, by you, but also by me. I pay my taxes; I would like to go romp around next to loud speakers for a few days in the park next to my house. It sounds liek your issue is more with the Parks and rec folks not holding up their end of the bargain.

3) WE THE PEOPLE does not mean just you. It does not mean people who agree with you. It also means ME. I want the festival there. So do 50,000 other people, many of whom live in the city. I have a friend who lives right on the edge of SF; she has lived here all her life and is coming to this event. There are many people who live nearby who regard this event as nothing more than a minor inconvenience. You have no more of a right to say what happens in that park then she does; she has a right to it just as much as you.

The difference with your PG&E example is that we pay PG&E to not allow that to happen. If PG&E made me leave my house due to the smell, there had better be a good reason for it. If there was one, I might be irritated due to the inconvenience, but I might also understand.

Hey, guess what…there IS a good reason for the inconvenience we have this weekend. It’s a Major Music Festival, and many people are actually PAYING for this to take place. The money they pay goes into the pockets of the city, the bands, and the people who make it happen. it brings a major festival to our doorstep, something which is very cool and which many other places int he city have.

You are sadly conflating the right of the neighborhood to choose what happens in the park with the right of the citizens of the city to choose. The park does not belong to you primarily, just because you live next door to it. it’s actually irrelevant that you do, because the city takes into account what people who live in the Bayview think about the park and it’s uses just as much as they do yours. There are many people in the Mission who are inconvenienced terribly during the two days of Cinco De Mayo; somehow they get through it. You have no more rights to drive them out than they have to drive Cinco De Mayo out.

4) No, it’s still Nimbyism. You have presumably no problem with a noisy celebration in the castro or in the mission, even though presumably some people there are annoyed. But if it is in your backyard, literally…it bothers you. That’s Nimbyism.

Again I’ll point out. You want the park to be used only in certain ways 100% of the time. But what about my rights? What about my desires to have a loud concert near where I live? What about my rights to use the park by going to a loud show and dancing till 10pm? I pay taxes too. Why should I have to go to another part of the city? Why should I have to go to the Castro the Mission or these other areas, when I can have a party near my house? I live in this city too; I moved here NOT because of the peace and quiet but because it’s an energetic city full of life. When you say “If people such as yourself would volunteer their time to work in the parks, Rec and park might not have to hold this concert.” you are forgetting that I am HAPPY they are having this concert. It is a GOOD thing these major bands are playing here; it brings lots of attention to the city as a good place to be and live because of the vibrant events that happen here. There’s always someone who says its the WRONG location when a loud event happens in their neighborhood; when I lived in the astro I knew people who’d leave town on Pride weekend because the whole neighborhood was screwed up for the weekend. That’s life in a big city.

I am a resident of this neighborhood just like you; I will be out partying this evening enjoying life and listening to fantastic music in MY park.

CS: I agree — I’ve said the same thing should be done re: Academy of Sciences and the Museums. City residents should get discounted admission.

KUDOS TO OL RE: SOUND: It’s 2:30 and I’m working in my home office and just want to say that at least from there, the sound level is totally working for me…and if they can manage to keep it like this for all acts, all weekend, I will be very pleased.

Sorry, Number 1 above should have said it starts at Noon today. 12 noon till 10pm is 10 hours + 10 + 8.

“That’s why they have enclosed auditoriums, to give people a choice.”

You also have the choice to not hole yourself up in your apartment 24/7, and to get out and explore other parts of the city. Like perhaps the Presidio, which could really use your business.

BTW, Lady Gaga has just as much right as anybody to stand on a street corner and sing, just like the performers in MUNI and Bart stations. And I have just as much right to not give them money or make eye contact as I pass by.

What’s that got to do with anything?

Right. Shut it down. And that Bay to Breakers– closing a street in front of people’s houses? Of course everyone along the route should get a veto. And those Sunday Streets– who voted for them? Or the parades? And would you believe my neighbors can organize a block party in front of my house without my permission? The city should cater to my convenience, and maybe I’ll deign to allow certain small gatherings now and then– as long as they’re out of my sight.

Yes, if only more people would volunteer– then we could stop having concerts. What an incentive!

And getting a hotel room because you can’t find parking? Here’s a tip: Muni is a lot cheaper than a hotel room.

Anyway, I haven’t bought a ticket, but I’m going to get a burrito and go to the park to find a log to sit on and enjoy some music. Feel free to complain if you must. Heck, put it to a vote, or make it an issue in the elections– that would be fine with me. But somehow I don’t see anyone campaigning on a platform of banning concerts.

“I’ve said the same thing should be done re: Academy of Sciences and the Museums. City residents should get discounted admission.”

Most museums have free days, and the Academy has free days for residents, based on Zip code. Check their website for schedule.

Instead of wishing aloud for things you should check to see if maybe they already exist in some form.

Besides, the Academy is an incredible place that is not cheap to run. I would hope most residents of this city know of the higher purpose of the place and would welcome paying full price, or buying a membership, or giving them extra cash donations when you visit. All things which I do.

To follow up on my comment, I’m in no way sideing with those who think the park shouldn’t be used for concerts, even ones people may have to pay for. I know there are a bunch of people who would complain about everything no matter what.

I hope Alai saves a seat for me on the log because that’s what I do every year for OL (except I bring a lawn chair, because logs are damp)

I’m really curious where some of these people live in the city, because it’s more than obvious they don’t live across the street from the park.

MattyJ, I don’t hole myself up in my apartment 24/7, and I’m not sure where that came from. If I DID, it wouldn’t be your business or even be relevent to this discussion. The Presidio?! What are you talking about?

What I DO do is pay rent across the street from GG Park and am a resident of the Richmond district, along with the other neighbors in my apartment building, and have been for over 10 years now. The problem as I see it is that there are a large number of people who come to San Francisco thinking we’re still in the “summer of love” and keep trying to recreate something that was half a century ago. The sixties are over, and we got from them what we did and moved on. Golden Gate Park isn’t Woodstock; even Woodstock was held on a farm way out of New York. This is about respecting other peoples’ privacy. It’s kind of hard for me to believe you didn’t get my point re: auditoriums, as it was pretty clear: if you don’t like the music I like, then I wouldn’t be selfish enough to push it on you, especially for THREE DAYS. The marathons, Bay to Breakers, etc., are an entirely different situation here… they last a few hours and don’t encompass the residents’ entire lives (sound, parking, public transport) the way these 72 hour festivals do. Someone made the comment this is about “two people whining…” I see a lot more dissenters than two here, and there are quite a few more in my apartment building.

I’m realizing now that nothing will be solved on this blog. What bugs the hell out of me is that I’m willing to bet that most of the people in favor of the festival don’t live anywhere near it and go home to their driveways or parking spots and quiet homes after taking up ours all day. We have a supervisor who shows absolutely no interest in these issues and I’m sure also has his own driveway. No city – including New York – would allow an event like this to take place for three days in a row, twice a year, and walk all over residents’ privacy this way.

The ironic part about this whole thing is that our supervisor finds Happy Meals to be more of a concern than this issue, and several of us have been complaining about it for three years now.

Many people here seem to misunderstand what a representative government is and how it works. If you don’t like something that is happening, go to your representative and complain. If they don’t respond, vote them out at the next election. The idea that they should come to us or put every decision up to a vote is 100% backwards from how representative government works – they are in place to make decisions FOR us, and you vote for them based on how they say that they will handle those decisions (as well as their past track record in similar situations).

The last thing that we need is MORE direct democracy in this city.

As for Outside Lands, not my particular cup of tea, but different folks like different things. A city should be able to handle lots of different things.

“I’m really curious where some of these people live in the city, because it’s more than obvious they don’t live across the street from the park.”

I live a block in (Cabrillo) near a corner and I can hear the festivities loud and clear from my house, if I chose to stay there on the weekend instead of getting out and exploring this glorious land.

“MattyJ, I don’t hole myself up in my apartment 24/7, and I’m not sure where that came from. If I DID, it wouldn’t be your business or even be relevent to this discussion. The Presidio?! What are you talking about?”

So it’s not relevant to me what you do in your apartment, but it’s relevant to you what I do outside of mine? I’m just saying that there are alternatives to staying home and complaining about noise, like going to one of the other wonderful, quiet parks in this city, for example the Presidio. GGP isn’t the be-all, end-all of parks in San Francisco.

“if you don’t like the music I like, then I wouldn’t be selfish enough to push it on you, especially for THREE DAYS.”

But if YOU do NOT like the music I like to listen to you in a venue of my choice, then it’s okay for you to ban it? Please elaborate on my rights vs yours when we’re talking about public grounds.

“The marathons, Bay to Breakers, etc., are an entirely different situation here… they last a few hours and don’t encompass the residents’ entire lives (sound, parking, public transport.)”

Maybe not where you live, but I had to dodge marathon pee on the way to the store at one point last year, and I’m not even exactly on the route. Parking is just as atrocious and it starts before dawn, people sitting on the sidewalk in front of my house, littering all over the place. As far as impact on this part of the city, maybe the marathon isn’t on par with a three day festival but in some ways, for me, in my micro neighborhood, it’s worse. It’s just a different class of inconsiderate people.

“the way these 72 hour festivals do. Someone made the comment this is about “two people whining…” I see a lot more dissenters than two here, and there are quite a few more in my apartment building.”

If you were in the majority, then you and your clan would be marching the streets and would have been successful in banning all outdoor festivals in GGP. I’d see you picketing along Lincoln or Fulton. But I don’t see any of that because you chose to lobby your protest amongst a bunch of idiots (I’m including myself) on a message board. Least. Effective. Protest. Ever.

“I’m realizing now that nothing will be solved on this blog. What bugs the hell out of me is that I’m willing to bet that most of the people in favor of the festival don’t live anywhere near it and go home to their driveways or parking spots and quiet homes after taking up ours all day.”

We have driveways in the Richmond? I’m getting ripped off. As mentioned, I live a block away.

I’d defy you to find a ‘quiet’ home in this city, outside of perhaps Broadway or Seacliff. This place ain’t quiet, man.

“No city – including New York – would allow an event like this to take place for three days in a row, twice a year, and walk all over residents’ privacy this way.”

Maybe it is because there are one day festivals going on in NYC every single day, all summer long, in all the boroughs. There’s no room on the schedule for something that lasts two or three days. River to River, SummerStage, BAM Rythm and Blues Festival, etc., all sanctioned by the city. If you’re trying to convince me that six days of inconvenience a year is worse than living in NYC and putting up with various festivals and parades all summer long, then by all means put your money where your mouth is and go seek some peace and quiet in NYC. I support you 100% in that endeavor.

I would also like to know how a concert in the park, which undoubtedly is coming in under the decibel limitations of local ordinances, violates your privacy. Seriously, explain to me what your definition of privacy is and how this concert in a public place violates that.

“The ironic part about this whole thing is that our supervisor finds Happy Meals to be more of a concern than this issue, and several of us have been complaining about it for three years now.”

I support a supervisor that puts the wants and needs of thousands ahead of the ‘several’ people in your anti-fun group. Once I find out who my supervisor is I’m going to put a note on the fridge to remind me to vote for him or her again.

MattyJ, after reading your responses as well as your continually quoting almost everyone on the board, it’s clear to me that no matter what anyone says, you have all the answers. 95% of the posts I’m reading on this board are people clearly trying to work the problem out; your responses sound like a smart-ass who just wants to argue; your answers are even beginning to contradict themselves.

Hey everyone – Thanks for weighing in with your feedback and comments. OL is a tough one every year as it brings up this debate repeatedly. We’re glad you have found a place to discuss it here on the blog!

That said, let’s chill out a bit with the tit for tat’s and the really lengthy diatribes about your own views, or commenting on each other’s. There seems to be a war brewing over who will have the last word and I’d rather we not head down that road.

Thanks,

Sarah B.

I don’t mind the noise, large crowds, or traffic. What really bugs me is the way people trash the neighborhood, and treat houses like a public bathroom. It’s never this bad at any of the other events.

I’d like to let people know my experience this (Fri) eve. I’m on 15th near Lake (i.e., nowhere near the Polo Fields). I called the concert tip line around 7:30 p.m. to let them know that I could hear the music loud and clear. The very sympathetic person told me they’d be adjusting the sound when the current set was over, in about 15 min. After about 30 minutes, I called again because the sound had INCREASED exponentially. This time, the (very sympathetic) guy (they’ve trained them well!) said they really can only adjust the sound between sets. And when would this set be over? He said the band would be playing until 10 p.m.–3-1/2 hours! He told me that they were getting calls in from the inner Richmond near Balboa, which, he conceded was pretty far away from the music. He said that somehow people’s complaints would get relayed to someone (he wasn’t sure who), even though it didn’t sound like anyone would do anything about it. He assured me that speaker positions would and sound levels would be adjusted tomorrow, and ventured that maybe the fog had something to do with the way the sound was carrying. I also called the Richmond station and the guy at the front desk suggested — wait for it! — that I download a decibel app on my smartphone and record the noise so that I’d have something objective to report, rather than just my opinion about what I thought was too noisy. He didn’t know if the promoters and the city had agreed to a decibel noise level–he said he was “trying to find out.” He also told me that as long as the promoters have a permit, there is nothing the PD can do about the noise until 10 p.m.–even if there is a disturbing the peace issue. Can this possibly be true?

Eric Mar: 554-7410.

I’m at 30th and california and I can’t believe how loud it is. It is not the music per se that bothers me but the thump of the bass. I can’t even imagine how residents close to the park feel (other than what I’m reading of course). It doesn’t matter whether you like the music. Most of us like music but not at earsplitting volumes (unless you are 15) and not so much that we can’t hear ourselves think in our own homes. San Francisco allows small factions to meddle in city affairs all the time but apparently only when they are not directly making money. Then you can count on complaints to fall on deaf ears.

To temper my earlier comments, I agree that this could be done to excess. If it were every week, it would be too much. If it were less interesting (say Oracle wanted to have a convention in the park) it would be too commercial, regardless of how much they paid. And certainly some people, by virtue of where they live, get the brunt of the downside, whether noise or traffic.

But if it bothers you, just consider it the cost of living in earshot of Golden Gate Park. Most people should be so lucky.

I only have and need one answer: Get over it. You live in a densely populated city. It’s going to be noisy sometimes.

“Working it out” would have been spending the last year canvassing the neighborhood, picketing city hall, contacting your reps, mobilizing, etc., instead of waiting until the day the event actually started, then complaining about the noise you knew was coming for the past year. Maybe try that for 2012.

What gets me is all the complainers throwing around statements like ‘violating my privacy’ and ‘volume increased exponentially’ when they clearly do not know what these terms mean. This is the language of bullies and my neighborhood deserves better than having a few bullies speak for us.

The cop that suggested you download a noise measuring app for your phone was not off the mark. We do have noise ordinances but the person that enforced them, I believe, was laid off last year. You’ll have to get up off your butts and do some work here. I highly doubt that the noise is past acceptable, legal levels, but maybe it is. Complaining that it is ‘too noisy’ doesn’t really tell anyone anything. If it is over the limit, then my sympathies are with you, but as I mentioned, I’m on Cabrillo near 46th and I could barely hear anything. I even had my window open a little bit while I was burning some steaks in the kitchen.

46th and Cabrillo?! You’re at the beach, MattyJ, you’re not even close to the concert! This is my point; know-it-alls like you who aren’t even within earshot of the music! If there are any bullies in this forum, it’s you and how you address other people. Why don’t YOU “get over it” and stop posting until you’re in the middle of the situation like a lot of us are! 46th and Cabrillo! What a joke!

Well, I’m at 20th and Judah on the other side of the park, I can hear everything and I’m right next to an N stop that’s heavily used this and every weekend there’s a big event, and I think most of you are self-entitled exaggerating whiners.

Speaking of exaggerating, what big event is held weekly on 20th and Judah?

“And” is a conjunction. Read JR’s post again. Carefully.

46th and Cabrillo isn’t the only place I’ve lived in the Richmond and Sunset. I could throw a rock into the polo grounds from the roof of my old apartment. As JR says, OL is no louder than the busses, cars, trucks that drive around the park every day. Not to mention drunks, dogs, random people yelling at each other on the street.

I’d really like to know where this alleged multitude of people live that have found inner peace and tranquility so close to one of the busiest attractions in the city.

I live at 24th and Geary. Last night I could definitely hear the music out where I live, and I loved it. I could see lots of flashing concert lights and there was this sense of energy int he air. The Richmond was rockin last night, folks.

Around 11:30, Geary was insane. Sooo many people for our district. I absolutely loved it. I took a quick walk down Geary after grabbing a drink at Trader Sams.
1) Trader Sams was completely crowded. There was a line out the door which never happens at this place.
2) Probably 50 people waiting for the bus at every bus stop. How come the city cant get MUNI to plan ahead and get buses on a regular basis at this late at night after this event. They knew this would happen…
3) Nearly every restaurant between 25th and Park Presidio was crowded. The restaurants that had the foresight to stay open late made a killing.
4) The sidewalks were way more crowded with people than normal. Usually there’s just a few pedestrians late at night but last night people were everywhere. Such energy. Fantastic!

Please call Erik Mar and thank him for bringing this event to the Richmond. We now have our own big noisy event like the Mission, the Castro, and the Haight, that that is a very very good thing. With more events like these, we will draw more people to our district and they can see exactly how wonderful it is.

The temporary discomfort of those people living next to the event notwithstanding, this is a huge boon for the community. I spoke with one person at Trader Sams and another at the Rockit room who live a block from the event. They acknowledged it was loud but that they loved it.

For those people who say it is too loud for you, I would simply say repeat: The amount of time the music plays is 28 hours. That is a little more than a day. Thats about 3/10ths of 1 percent of the year. A very small amount of time. Its good that it is noisy and exciting; THANK YOU Erik Mar for bringing this to our neighborhood.

Deal with it. Go watch a movie. Go down to Pacifica for some peace and quiet. And for those who say that I or MattJ don’t live right up against the park, so our opinions are irrelevant, you should understand that it does not matter where we live in the Richmond. I point out again and again that people who live in the Castro, the Mission, the Haight, Japantown, the Fillmore, Norh Beach and other places that have a noisy, loud, disruptive event in their nieghborhood have no more say over the noise in their neighborhood than you or I. It’s part and parcel of living in a noisy city. It’s noisy. Loud. Discruptive. For a WEEKEND.

THANK YOU Erik Mar for bringing this event, and lets hope they bring it back next year!

quick question,

you guys think it’d be really hard to find street parking around 8th and Fulton tonight? like around 7pm? it’s not that close to the concert right?

Dear “J” — you still refuse to take my point.
The Fillmore Jazz Festival, the Pride Parade, the Cherry Blossom Festival,k etc., etc. are FREE PUBLIC EVENTS. They do not kick the citizens of San Francisco off their own property to host a FOR PROFIT event by a promoter who MAKES MONEY.

You do not have to buy a ticket — it is FREE.

big, big, big, big, big, big, BIG difference.

This is the SAME principle as if Phil Ginsberg decided to let a developer start building condos on a piece of Washington Square Park of the Dolores Park. . You wouldn’t allow that would you? I hope not! and why not? Because it is PUBLIC LAND and a private company has no right to take away the public’s ability to use and enjoy that land.

Okay so — I know this actually takes a highly intelligent person to figure out, but try to stay with me…

You let him start fencing off parks for private events — what’s to stop him from leasing out Speedway meadow on weekend to Wells Fargo for a party and fencing out the public? He’d just say “shut up! It’s making money for Rec and Park!” And then he could do it — as he already IS doing — for every facility that is SUPPOSED to be public and freein the city.

I know for a fact that discounted tickets for people living closest to the park were discussed. Another Planet had no interest in that whatsoever.

Hey Matty, I’ll bet a C-note u r not from here. not feeling the love in what you write

Stoirin…I understand your point completely. You have elucidated it very well and clearly. I applaud you for that.

And I utterly disagree with it.

I don’t care if it is a for profit event; It’s a one-time thing that is not repeated throughout the year. the citizens of the city are actually paying of their own volition to attend the event. They WANT to be there.

In fact, not only are there people who live near the event who have no problem with the noise, there are people who live near the event who are paying to…and I know this sounds strange…actually GET CLOSER to the noise. Like near the stages! Where there’s loud loud music! Imagine that…crazy kids! Get off my lawn!

You keep comparing apples and oranges. If Ginsburg started allowing developers to build those condos, those would be there presumably permanently. So of course I’d have a problem with it.
This concert is a temporary thing; I can’t stress that enough.

The example with Wells Fargo holds no water too, because hey..guess what! The city already DOES this. Union square, which is city property, gets blocked off all the time to private parties! Oracle, for example, rents the entire square and puts up a big tent for them and only their customers! I’ve seen this a few times at multiple places in the city.

All you can do is walk around the outside of square for this event…but wait, isn’t Union square supposed to be free and available to all people in the city every single day of the year? Of course not. There have been multiple events in the city where streets are shut off and you have to pay an admission to enter. Happens all the time.

So no, I have no problem with a corporation blocking off the park for a corporate event…for me, the keys would be simply, is it purely corporate, or are there large amounts of san franciscans who would pay to go to a “Wells Fargo” sponsored event? Actually, now that you mention it, maybe Wells Fargo could help sponsor Outside Lands. That way they could bring in even more bands and make it an even better event! What a great idea!

I’m at 14th and Taraval, far away from the concert. Yet we hear the continual beat until at least 10:00 at night. I have long been against noise pollution and this certainly qualifies for that description.

Nah. It’s a city. Cities are noisy.

10pm is the legally mandated time that the music has to go off, and that’s entirely reasonable. I like the loud music. More, please.

I’m several miles away from GGPark all the way on 34th Ave near Sloat and due to the topography of the City, the sound is amplified on my block and the bass thumping on Friday Aug 12th was super obnoxious especially between after 8:30pm to 10pm. There’s no reason why it has to be so damn loud for the concert goers to enjoy the music…turn down the f’ing volume!

48. renee Said: I’d like to let people know my experience this (Fri) eve. I’m on 15th near Lake (i.e., nowhere near the Polo Fields). I called the concert tip line around 7:30 p.m. to let them know that I could hear the music loud and clear. The very sympathetic … snip

We must have spoken to the same sympathetic persons. I had the exact same experience – trice. I think they put people on the hot line to simply give soothing answers, but do nothing.

Though I do not expect to be asked to vote on whether to hold a concert in GG, I do however expect that those who give our permits set volume limits that prevent the thumping being broadcasted all the way to Lake street.. I like the energy and buzz, but like with everything else there needs to be reasonable limit. I hope someone would find a cause of action to sue the production company and the Parks and Recs. And I agree we really need another sup for Richmond.

On another topic, but related, I wonder about the hearing of people who get close to something so loud. Isn’t it damaging? I notice that many young people have super loud voices. Could this be due to hearing loss?

I took the Police guy’s advice to renee and downloaded the decibel ap. Guess what? At the peak the noise for the concert in my flat is 106dcb (2 times normal) and it never went below 78 in 10 minuts.
My understanding ( correct me if I am wrong) that standard ambiant noise for the city in day time is 50 -55 and 45-50 at night, and city law prohibits increase over 10 dcb unless there is a special dispensation… At 110 some website claims you will damage the eardrums… and anything over 80 is dangerous … So I have 2 questions, if it is 80+ at California and 23rd, what must it be at the concert itself? and what are the dcb limits that P&R allowed for the event?

Golden gate park was not created to host these insane events that destroy grass, flowers, shubbs ect. and shut out the public for over a week just to hear music and get wasted, you can go to a bar and do that if you must. It was ment for people to RELAX and get away from the noise and mayheim in the city, it seems like the whole purpose has been lost and that there is no respect what so ever the city and park&rec has for the surrounding neighborhoods. It is not just the incesent noise that dissruppts the neighborhood it is the street closures and insane traffic backups, IT IS NOT NECESSARY!
People that live in the richmond & sunset districts live out here to get away from the hectic core of the city and it seems that ofton the the surrounding neighborhoods get overlooked by the city and the city allows anything to happen. The western neighborhoods are very different then the rest of the city, its more mellow, quiet, and in my opinion the only way the residences of the neborhood will get the citys attention is with a lawsuit. What the city is doing is STEALING from taxpayers and what it come down to is a vote whether to allow this and other events that monopplize the majority of the park and its facilitys to go on. The polo fields just got new grass put in I wonder how it will look after a week of abuse, stages, trucks, trampling. I can tell you all of the people that dont live here dont care. WHAT A MESS!

I’m hearing a loud, diffuse bass over at the top of the hill near 24th and Dolores in Noe. I took a walk around the block and it’s not coming from anywhere in the immediate vicinity. Could it be Outside Lands? Anyone else this far away hearing anything?

(that last post was at around 9:15 on Saturday)

4.5 miles away in West Portal and CANT stand how loud this current set is. I feel very sorry for neighbors closer to the park for the torture they must be enduring

I feel sorry for the people at the concert. Music, especially with such an inane bass beat, can’t sound good at that volume.

I can hear the festival from Lone Mountain. I expect noise in the city. I enjoy GirlTalk. However, I don’t want to hear GirlTalk performing from 25 blocks away.

Just called and spoke with a pleasant woman. She said they’ve gotten complaints form Diamond Heights, so didn’t doubt that what I’m hearing in Noe is from the concert. Made no offer to reduce the noise or look into it, but assured me that it would be over by 10pm.

At 15th and Clement and I can make out the lyrics to the song, it’s that loud. It’s 9:36 pm. My sympathies to those near the stage.

It’s now 10:45pm, and while the music in the park has stopped, there are still large crowds outside, people talking loudly, yelling, cars honking and blasting music. This event needs to end at 8pm, or 9pm at the latest. The last band tonight seems like it was twice as loud as any of the others. The thing that bugs me the most is the utter disrespect these concertgoers have to the park and neighborhood. I live at 30th and Fulton… the main entrance.

There are clearly many more people who are sharing their dislike of this concert on the board than who are for it. The next question is, when and where do we organize? I’m ready to pursue this legally, e.g., a civil suit against the city. Spoke with an attorney Friday who said we have a clear-cut case… what are we waiting for?

Most people know that trampling on grass makes it stronger, like lifting weights for grass. It makes it more resilient. Seriously, it does. I’m wondering how many people here go out and enjoy a stroll on the polo fields when there are no events going on. Most people couldn’t even find it.

BTW, San Francisco Police Code, Article 29, Section 2909(e): “Noise Caused By Activities Subject To Permits From the City and County of San Francisco. None of the noise limits set forth in this Section apply to activity for which the City and County of San Francisco has issued a permit that contains noise limit provisions that are different from those set forth in this Article.”

Which is to say the event probably has a permit that says it can make as much noise as it wants until 10pm, which was likely arrived at through some sort of call for community involvement. Town hall or something that obviously nobody here participated in. There are ample opportunities to attend board supervisor’s meetings with open agendas throughout the year, which I’m sure everyone here did prior to waiting until this past Thursday to complain.

Of course a lawyer will tell you you ‘have a case’ because any case gets him paid, win or lose.

I’m just glad that I was out all day enjoying this magnificent weather while the self-appointed neighborhood spokespeople wallowed in their own self-imposed, self-important outrage.

I really do hope you all mobilize for next year. I hope you canvas the neighborhoods surrounding the park to survey folks that are opposed to big events in the park. I think you should carry two petitions so you can keep track of those opposed as well as those in favor.

Oh my GOD! It’s so loud on a Saturday night in a city of almost a million people!!!! I couldn’t make out lyrics! People are talking loudly! I CAN”T BELIEVE IT!!! WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May I suggest a rest home in Copperopolis or Los Banos perhaps for you all? It might be a little too close to freeway noise.

Matty J, J and JR (if you are really separate people and not one), you’re model citizens to us all. I’m sure most of the posters on this board are aspiring to be as sensitive, sharp and loving as you. You’ve clearly reached Nirvana and we are just lowly peons. MattyJ even is clairvoyant… he can tell what everybody does throughout the day. Even though you’re vastly outnumbered on this board, please continue to post to show us all the error of our ways. “J” seems to be the common letter here… is that joke? Jerk, maybe?

I wonder how much profit is made from this festival? How much of that goes to the city? I think that neighbors should be offered compensation for the suffering the weekend has put them through – as many describe – the noise, the crowds, the lack of parking, property damage, public transportation difficulties, etc. etc. I guess this would require a lawsuit.

Also think that perhaps “Mattyj” and “J” are put on this blog by the Outside Lands people to combat and make fun of complaints, and to discourage people from taking action.

Re: Post #12

While I didn’t get an e-mail from Assembly Member Ma, the Great Highway is fully open, including the ‘upper’ portion. I drove on it a few times in the last few days: Friday rush hours, and Saturday late evening.

The next expected closure is next week Sunday due to some marathon.

You know, it’s pretty sad that people have to question the motives of the people on this boards who disagree with them. I don’t question the motives of people who are opposed to outside lands. I understand them, but disagree with them.

I’m not some corporate hack or a doppelganger for other posters; I’m a real citizxxzen who has lived in the Richmond for 11 years, and before that in the sunset, right next to the park. So I have just as much say about this as any of you.

I grew up in Tulsa. I remember specifically that we had a club that played techno back in the early 90’s, and the neighbors hated it. They talked to their supervisor, but all the kids who wanted this club, and who lived in the neighborhood, rose up and went to city council meetings and protested with signs and a whole host of methods. At the end of the day, the local neighbors won. The club was shut down and an ordinance was passed that clubs couldn’t play loud music past 10:00.

Tulsa today is a dead town for young people. People leave Tulsa to move to other places, because the city effectively drove out the things that kept youths in the city. We were very disappointed; what about our rights as club-goers and citizens?

These arguments against this event are no more than that. It’s a bunch of NIMBYs who can’t stand to have their peace and quiet disturbed for a single weekend out of the year.

As three very wise men once said.

“You gotta fight….

for your right….

to paaaaaaaarty.”

Amen. Fortunately this city is generally very supportive of people’s right’s to party. You have a right to peace and quiet….for 362 days a year. I demand MY right to party loudly for three days a year, in MY park. After all, it’s just as much mine as it is yours.

When you demand peace and quiet 100% of the time, YOU are infringing upon my right. A reasonable compromise is for you to have peace and quiet and enjoyment of the park in your fashion for, say, 99.96% of the year. In fact that is what you have. It is unreasonable for the people on this board to attempt to deny me (and I would like to point out, 180,000 people, according to the SF Chronicle) the right to enjoy the park in the way we want to for .04% of the year. Who is being selfish? It’s not those 180,00 people, I can tell you that.

So, please, organize. But you ought to know that if it comes down to it, and there is a serious attempt by people to shut this event down because of the .04% of the year your peace is disturbed, there will be those of us who will organize as well to oppose you. And I think 180,000+ people might have something to add to that as well.

What do you think their opinions are on the matter? Or do your rights trample theirs?

TELL MAYORAL CANDIDATES YOUR VIEWS ABOUT OUTSIDE LANDS — and the other Richmond-related issues that are on your mind.

A public, free, moderated forum for the candidates running for mayor to speak to residents of the Richmond districtis being held at the RICHMOND REC CENTER @ 251 18th Avenue (betw. California & Clement) Monday, Sept. 19 @ 7 p.m. (Believe it’s 7 — please verify the time).

Mayors for years have dismissed the Richmond as “somewhere out there…you know, where the de Young is is”) and filled with people who don’t contribute big money to campaigns and half of whom don’t vote — so they think they can do anything to our neighborhood with out any reaction. And they’ve pretty much been right. THIS years, it just happens that the Richmond district is the swing vote in this race — and we’re VERY important to them.

So come out, show that you do care and want real answers to the quesitons that matter to YOU about parks, streets, small businesses, transportation, Ocean Beach, the homeless — whatever.

This is a NON-PARTISAN event is being sponsored by the Planning Assocn of the Richmond (PAR), Richmond Reform Democratic Club (RRDC), and the Chinese-American Voters Education Committee (CAVEC).

another problem that should have been very obvious but I just realized last night…
the HUGE number of concert attendees who are camping in GG park this weekend.

I have seen lots of large-frame backpacks loaded with sleeping gear…and stopped at Fulton and Park Presidio last night, I saw a group of 5 guys with large packs like these…it was almost midnight and street was pretty quiet. I rolled down my window and clearly heard one of them say “yeah…but we don’t want to sleep too close to the Rose Garden.”

For all of you who don’t see the problem with this and think that GG park should be a big free slumber party, did it ever occur to you that 80-foot pine and eucalyptus trees and the needles., etc underneath them burn VERY quickly in August…and that these campers are highly likely to be smoking, using matches…maybe even try to light fires down in gullies (it’s not like 18-year olds have ever been known not to use their common sense…esp. when drinking or drugging…) ….and that ONE street — Fulton –separates these high trees from HUNDREDS of 1930s-built, lathe-and-plaster flats and homes, all of which have about 2″ of space between them. You get a fire going there and it jumps Fulton and you are going to have a MAJOR conflagration in a matter of minutes…

In addition to that — you may have have a sizeable group of homeless people who are already living in the Park. — and our last police chief told me it swells considerably during the summer months. Many of these people have severe mental/emotional problems — are believe me, they are NOT on meds, though they may be on alcohol. And they’ve been living scared for years and are not really “open” to having strangers stumble into what thye regard as their “home.” A naive kids who have been “partying” stumbling through the park at 1 a.m. in the morning may get a sharp and lethal surprise to the ribcage…and I don’t really want to see that happening to anyone who came down for a fun weekend and was just plain ignorant and stupid.

So — I’d like to know what is being done to ensure that all concert attendees are NOT sleeping in the park for 2-3 days during this festival?

Yesterday on E. Mar’s Facebook page he directed readers to this blog and also to call the hotline # if there were any problems with noise… so he’s obviously aware of the comments here.

Today he’s posted as a “like…” Get this: Another Planet Entertainment!

Sue, ever thought of running for supervisor? Ronald McDonald is busy riding on the coattails of his Happy Meals campaign and obviously can’t be bothered with a response to this mess.

I live 3 blocks from the Park on 20th, sure we could hear music loud and clear. It wasn’t like this concert was a surprise. The same complaints you hear about Outside Lands in SF by near-park residents, are the same that are heard in Austin for residents around Zilker Park for Austin City Limits–a festival that is a quite a bit bigger and has greater headliners. I do not have an issue with ACL in Austin (of course I do not live near Zilker) nor do I have an issue with Outside Lands GGP. if there is a year that I want to go to the latter (line up makes a big difference), then I am in close distance to a great festival. However, it would be great if near-park residents received discounts to the festival since we do have to put up with a number of inconveniences.

As to the non-music noise after the concert closes… people making noise has been no greater than it is on a typical Friday/Saturday night, especially when bars close. Yes, the amount of car traffic is greater, but it hasn’t been that bad. I am actually rather surprised at how few parking violations there have been, only one car was towed yesterday. But then again, most residents on my block plunked their cars in front of their buildings.

As to campers in the park, I expect that this number is quite a bit lower than compared to a non-concert day. There is so much equipment/structures in place, so I am sure that SFPD and private security forces are abundant. If you have ever been to an all-day festival, the presence of frame back packs with blankets and such is not uncommon. People are there all day and they set up “camp” at various venues. When I used to live in Austin and went to ACL, we carried camel packs, folding chairs, clothing for weather change, sunscreen, etc. We had big honking back packs and we so did not try to stay overnight in the park.

Living along major municipal parks in any city, have their benefits, great green spaces, views, and access to events; they also have their drawbacks–influx of homeless and crime, more traffic from other parts of the city by park lovers, and disturbances by park-hosted events. If these tradeoffs do not work for you, then perhaps another location should be pursued. Personally, the benefits make the tradeoffs worth it for me.

And J: it’s more than obvious you grew up in a town like Tulsa from reading your posts. Maybe what’s rwally bothering you here isn’t OL , it’s the shutdown of your nightclub.

I would be 100% supportive of moving Ol into a club somewhere in the city. If it was techno, I’d probably be there too, rather than this Hang On Hippie stuff they’re playing in the park, but I realize that’s just my own personal opinion. The point you’ve just contradicted yourself on is that the club was INDOORS for those who wanted to go, it wasn’t forced on those who didn’t. You just don’t seem to get it. Re: organizing, from the campers in the park to all the trailers who had pulled along Fulton St., do you seriously belueve the majority of these people are from SF, or even Calufornia? Not to mention even the Richmond District. I’ve been experiencing this concert for four years now, and most of these people come from all over the US.

Re: whether it’s for three days a year (you keep leaving out the other three for Hardly Strictly Bluegrass), or three hours is irrelevent. It’s a major intrusion and a disturbance of the neighborhood’s peace.

How about if we all grab baseball bats and go at each other for three days out of every year? I mean, it’s our right, isn’t it? Anybody who disagrees can call the police the other 362 days of the year… and what’s more, they’re denying my rights to party if they don’t let me! So what if the streets are covered with blood, they’re my streets too!

So I put my money where my mouth is. Am actually at the event. And it’s a blast. So many wrong statements about this event. It takes up only part of the park, not even most of it. Very cool crowds. So happy this is here

J, but many of us disagree and will do our best to see that our city is not exposed to this craziness in subsequent years. I do realize the contract is for 5 years, and this is the 4th, I believe. I, for one, will participate in any efforts to stop this.

I do not necessarily want to stop the event, but I do want it to be differently organized. Maybe start Friday night, not noon – people need to get home from work and cross the GGP ; and full stop Sunday at 7 pm not 9:45. and sound monitored and modulated down enough not to carry all the way to Diamond Hights. Personally I do not see why residents should get discounts on tickets – after all that does not make OL any less noisy or the grass any less trampled on; but I would like some small part of the proceedings to go directly to Richmond and Sunset neighborhoods for street cleaning, development and landscaping or something similar, so that people who actually live here and have to bear the side effects of the event had a benefit from it.

Can anyone tell me how I can get involved in shutting this down in future years? I have rung the hotline numerous times and they tell me that they will turn the sound down between sets. That has not happened. It is getting louder and louder. I have emailed the Mayor’s office and called the police, no one cares. No one cares at all about the neighbors. What about the people in hospital at UCSF for god’s sake? I’m at Warren Drive and my living room is vibrating. It’s much worse than it was last year.

Apparently there is a meeting in September to address these issues and I will be there, can you tell me when and where please?

One last thing – I grew up in a city much larger than SF in Europe and we never had anything like this. It is rude, it is disruptive, it is selfish.Oh yeah, and it’s FOR PROFIT.

I am getting an officer out from Park Police to get an incident number for this Breach of the Peace, which is a criminal offense under penal code 415 pc. I don’t know how many others are doing this but this seems to be the only way to actually do something about this. I rang them five minutes ago so let’s see how long it takes them to respond.

For those of you who went to OL and didn’t find the noise loudand wonder what people are complaining about — I just want you to know that they are NOT making it up.

Was out at OL at 30th & JFK and just stood at about 31st for 40 minutes talking to a security guard (my computer say 9:03, I just walked in…)

While I was listening to Fogarty right at the VIP entrance to the polo field stables, I was able to talk on my cellphone in a normal tone of voice and hear everything the caller said with no difficulty at all. And I never wear earphones or earplugs and have exceptioanlly good hearing, so it’s not because I’m half deaf.

If I try to talk on my cellphone while walking down Fulton Street at 6 p.m. on a weekday, I can’t beause of the noise of the cars and the buses. Just can’t. Same is true about at least half of the bars in S.F. these days. Same thing was true when I was just standing talking to the guard.

I then walked out to fulton @ 30th…and by the time I was at 25th, the noise was 3x louder and by the time I got to 19th, it is even louder. Really seriously annoyingly, irritatingly driving me crazy after 8 minutes sitting here loud.

I don’t know how the sound engineers fix this — but I’m just saying that thye really need to understand that we not only have microclimates in S.F., but we have sound micro-whatevers in the Richmond district. It was pretty loud at 20th & Geary yesterday afternoon. And many readers from as far as Taraval and 17th and even further said they could clearly hear the bass and drums. I have a friend who lives near Washington High and it must have been bouncing off of it because she has been going crazy…wihle right next to the concert on 30th — not loud AT ALL..

I can’t STAND the noise.We live in the upper susnet, Golden Gate Heights and it is very loud from here. I wont mind any legal actions against the City. Please let’s unite and fight this!

Can you imagine the elderly and those that have anxiety attacks or even heart attactk from the noise pollution. Why can’t they use Candlestick Park instead. This is crazy. Any lawyers out there?

Actually, I have checked and they have a 3-year contract and this is the third. So that means THIS would be the time to stop it before they sign another one — again, without consulting anyone like they did last time.

Here is Richmond district supervisor Eric Mar’s phone number: (415) 554-7410
Here is the contract info for Phil Ginsburg, General Manager of Rec and Park, who are responsible for approving and running this event with promoters Outside Lands:

415-831-2701 email: Philip.Ginsburg@sfgov.org

Posting here is one thing; calling his office and saying what you think about this event can make a real difference.

Once again, people: Eric Mar: 554-7410. Let’s work on getting this guy out of office ASAP with someone who actually gives a damn and has a voice.

Poppy, can you elaborate on the penal code 415ac a little more? I’m going to call and file a similar complaint. Just made it home from Berkeley, drove around a five block radius looking for parking for almost 45 mins. Luckily, somebody pulled out in front of my building and I was able to get a spot. It’s 9:21 and the music is blasting (26th and Fulton), and I have all my windows closed. Called the Hotline – they picked up immediately – and was informed the music would be continuing until 9:45. Supposed to be up at 5:00 a.m. for work, this should make for a great day at SFGH tomorrow.

Like many of you, I’ve spent a miserable weekend being assaulted by the sound from OL. I’m glad I’m not alone.

This Thursday the Rec and Park Commission will be holding its monthly meeting at City Hall, Room 416 at 10 a.m. There will be an opportunity for public comment at this meeting…usually 2 or 3 minutes. A good way to express our grievances about Outside Lands and other GGP concerts is to speak at this meeting. We need to show the decision makers “we’re mad as hell and don’t want to take it any more.”

I plan to attend and hope to see many of you there. I also suggest we meet before the meeting to say hello, compare notes, and talk about what we can do to get City Hall to pay attention to our complaints. I’ll be at the coffee area in the East or West Court (can’t remember which it is) at 9 am on Thursday wearing a purple scarf. Hope to see you there.

For info on the Commission go to:
http://www.sfgov.org/site/frame.asp?u=http://sfrecpark.org/Commission.aspx

Speak out even if your voice trembles.

I echo Aly’s sentiments. And, after 3 days of dishes rattling in our cupboards, windows vibrating, horns honking & hipsters chugging 12 packs in our driveway in broad daylight, here’s my take: while the bands do sound fantastic, this is absolutely hardcore on the neighbors. As a mom of two kids, sadly, the city is not so much a family city any longer…as a former Haight inhabitant myself, I get it. I plan ahead, braced for last Friday’s hipster packed bus ride home (so packed that it was leaning), but this time around, its just been a bit too much. Not to mention the timing the promoters did by syncing the festival with SFUSD back-to-school & though SFUSD moved its calendar up by 2 weeks, so did Outside Lands. So, for those elderly folks, family dwellers, this can pretty much bite. We expect the herds of concert goers and occasional puking passerby as they fumble up the street at concert end, but some folks just plain lack decency – screaming, yelling, horns, you name it, has gone on each night until late (last night until 3am). I did call the 311 # on Friday night and as the staff answering were trying to keep up with the ringing phones all I could hear them doing was apologizing. The gal I spoke with told me they were working from a trailer inside the park behind the stage and all they could do was to take a list of complaints/recommendations to better things for next year…hello? this is the 4th year of this? 1. the community fliers you promoted on the news were posted on 1 block (from what we observed) and definitely not on our block 2. hire someone, anyone, to pick up the trash left everywhere on the street (daily) day & night from the party goers. We’ve spent each morning picking up bottles, cups, cans, balloons, postcards, glow sticks, etc. This is not a Rolling Stone’s concert arena…this is a family neighborhood of SF. In any case, off my soapbox, but if the promoter highlighting on the evening news (and its financial contribution to SF), perhaps they should also walk the walk — find a more suitable venue or really put actions into words when it comes to caring about the disruption its causing to the neighbors around the venue. Find another location — this may be a great festival for SF, but its a selfish move to continue in this venue. I truly hope that the promoters will really come up with a better plan next year. BTW – we close enough to be a credible source as we’re within1/2 block of the entrance.

Just left a very angry message on Ginsburg’s voicemail and will follow it up with an e-mail. People, please follow through, I’m sick and tired of dealing with this as I’m sure you are too.

I guess no one at City Hall or with the Parks knows that it is the first day of school tomorrow? First day of kindergarten tomorrow and I can’t sleep because of this dam racket!

I meant I couldn’t get my daughter to sleep because of all the noise. This event is a nightmare for people with young kids. We left town to get away form it and even coming back at 7 there it was still blasting into our homes.

Thanks for sharing the contact info. I just left Mr. Ginsberg a message as well and let him listen to the crowd screaming on our street via my phone (we are @ 30th and fulton)…seriously, endless droves of screaming folks, horns, music, whistles of cops directing traffic, and drunkards sitting across the street on my neighbor’s steps. I know it may be hard to leave the party at the party, but this is so not OK. And, for the community hotline **advising what time the concert ends** ,it is critical for it to be heard that though that’s when the music stops, ***the noise/disruption carries on for A LOT longer and is brought right ONTO our streets***. Amen to the suggestion above that this goes no later than 7pm.

Mintocrags, we’re in the exact same boat over here with two little ones starting school tomorrow. Eric Mar’s and Ginsberg’s #’s are posted below if you want to call to voice your concerns as well.

@ J Said But you ought to know that if it comes down to it, and there is a serious attempt by people to shut this event down because of the .04% of the year your peace is disturbed, there will be those of us who will organize as well to oppose you. And I think 180,000+ people might have something to add to that as well. What do you think their opinions are on the matter? Or do your rights trample theirs?

J: Frankly, I don’t give a tinker’s damn about the opinion of someone who lives in another city in California, let alone another state, regarding how fabulous the noise and traffic are, because–yeah, my rights do count for more than theirs. They do not live here, they do not pay taxes here, and they do not have to deal with the aftermath of this noise fest. They are not the constituents of the elected officials here. Yes, J, you and some others who feel that the more noise and traffic, the better, may be consitutents, but you are not 180,000 strong. Not by a long shot. It would be interesting to know what percentage of these 180,000 people actually live in the Avenues or the Sunset, let alone the city, but I’ll bet it’s fraction of the total number attendees.

In terms of noise (my main issue out here on Lake and 11th Ave), Sunday has been much, much better. I’ve had to work from home today and except for a few brief (maybe 15-30 min) episodes, I haven’t even heard the noise (I’ve been keeping the windows closed). I can handle 30 minutes of annoying, migraine inducing bass, if that’s all it is (although I’m completely sympathetic to those who ask why they should have to endure as much). Things got louder since about 9 p.m. tonight, but it’s all over (for another year) now. …..Sigh…..I do hope my fellow Richmond D residents and those in the Sunset who were negatively affected by this event had it a little better today too.

I think Ally’s comments (#93) most resonant with me. I don’t ncessarily want NO concerts in the future, just some compromise. I say: Knock yourselves out with a great 3-day concert, but one that isn’t so friggin loud for several miles in all directions, one in which the promoters take some of their profits to ADEQUATELY oversee the event: (1) ongoing monitoring of the noise at each venue for the entire 3 days and responding to neighbor complaints to adjust decibel levels. (2) ADEQUATELY ensuring enough tow trucks and patrols so that when the concert lets out each night, neighbors’ properties aren’t trampled. (3) Doing even more (publicity!) to make sure there is ADEQUATE public transportation to & from the event. (4) Consider scaling back the number of tickets sold to mitigate some neighborhood impacts.

Only a narcistic, self-entitled person would insist on having things as loud as possible for 10 hours a day for 3 days because it’s so “cool.” J keeps saying we in the neighborhood have 362 days of peace and quiet and that we shouldn’t whine about 3 days of loud partying. Of course, it’s disingenuous to suggest that we have 362 days of “peace and quiet.” We do not, and as sensitive as I am to noise, I don’t live in a library and I don’t expect to have “peace and quiet” here all the time. As you say, this is a city. Noise happens. Black and white thinking doesn’t help, either for or against these kinds of concerts. I am concerned that there are such entrenched views that the idea of compromise goes out the window. For example, who says it has to be a 3-day concert? Who says there have to be 60,000 tickets for sale? Maybe there are ways to make it work a little better for all sides, allowing for the fact that not everyone will be entirely happy.

In addition to calling Eric Mar and Phil Ginsburg, I’d like to suggest that we all try to get as many friends and neighbors to sign a letter or petition complaining about how this concert was managed. The more people who are unhappy about this the better. Nothing formal…just signatures signing on to our concerns. If we do this by the meeting this Thursday, August 18, all the better. Meanwhile, let’s light up the switchboard.

This isn’t another year away… it will be happening in another six weeks with the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass Festival.

http://www.strictlybluegrass.com/

It’s a repeat of the same thing for the third (or fourth?) year in a row.

Someone mentioned Candlestick Park as a venue, and I think that’s a great idea… both of these concerts have definitely outgrown GG Park.

Just did some research on the website: I’m wrong, HSB has been going on since 2001. It started out at 8 hours and now will be three days in a row… once again in Speedway Meadow!

@Dman – I don’t really have an opinion one way or the other on these festivals, but moving them to Candlestick Park is not an option, because Candlestick Park is far too small a venue for something like this and can’t support the multiple stages, etc. Within SF, the only alternative would be something in the Presidio perhaps.

Frank: sounds good to me. Let’s allow the other residents in S.F. to experience this for a change…

That’s actually a GREAT idea! The city owns the Presidio now, don’t they? There are very few residents living there, and a ton of land… it would be perfect for these events!

The Presidio is a national park and I do not see NPS agreeing to, nor having the available management for such a move. Also, for those in the Richmond having a fit about the noise, it does not really change anything. Sound still travels if media is available.

I like the idea of selecting other venues for these events. Let’s spread them around throughout the city rather than concentrate them in our neighborhood. Share the pain.

One of my biggest gripes is that Rec & Park has made little/no effort to reach out to the community about these events ahead of time. We’ve been treated with such disrespect. All we got was a notice about OL a week or so before, but no request for input from those of us who are impacted by these events. This must change.

Additionally, I think the event producers should do something to help the Richmond in return for inconveniencing/tormenting us. A couple of ideas:

– Support a neighborhood beautification project.
– Make a generous donation to our local schools or a social services agency.
– In addition to restoring GGP, they could actually do some kind of improvement project.
– Maybe we could even enlist the support of all the performers whose venue we so generously provided.

We can brainstorm when we meet Thursday morning at City Hall (Aug 18, 9 am, coffee area on the main floor) Let’s think of all the ways we can make lemonade out of the basket of lemons they handed us.

I’d like to request resident parking for those of us who live in the Richmond, like most other districts have.

Strange how people have such different takes on things.

When I headed home last night, it made me smile to see our streets flooded with people who were really happy. Hundreds of little blinking bike lights coasting by, large crowds of young people who were totally stoked to see their favorite bands, and a general rush of excitement on an unusually warm night. Seemed like a nice disruption for the Richmond.

I’m not a huge fan of any of the bands that played, but I am glad that the event happened.

Went to the event today, finally. So many misconceptions to correct.

First of all, many of the posters here spread the word that the entirre park was cut off to public use., This is rediculous. After walking through the eastern end of the park, I assure you there were plenty of of hippies on Hippy Hill; the big field where football and ultimate frisbee was full of people. There was no music there. If you did not know Outside lands was taking place to the west, you would have had nocue. You culd literally hear no music till you got to park presidio. The music was MUCH MUCH less than what people here are saying it was. I know. I was there.

Is there anyone else here who attended this event?

I did not think so. So my opinions, as are the opinions of the 180,000 people who attended, hold quite a bit of weight.

I went by Hobson’s Choice in the Haight before the event today.

This is very important.

I spoke with a tourist. Her name was Bernadette. She was from Houston. She had flown in with her daughter, specifically to see these bands. Actually specifcally to see MGMT (more on this in a moment). She mentioned her daughter had run into people from Toronto, Boca Raton, FL, and Newark, NJ.

This is a NATIONAL event folks. People are flying in from all over the country to see these bands.

Playing Music. Loudly.

Please be nice to tourists. You could be one someday.

(I bring up MGMT because she told me a funny story; she was at the VIP bar last night, and ran into one of the band members. She vaguely recognized him as someone from the band, and asked to buy him a drink. He agreed, and she called her daughter, and told her what she had done; the daughter showed up literally 1 minute later after catching a cab from where she was partying, and got all sorts of autographs. Next thing the mom knows, shes plastered all over facebook and twitter as the older woman who embarassed her daughter for hitting on the band member and buying him a drink. Pretty funny.)

Anyway, the event was very fun. I mst say I was quite surprised at how well put-on it was, almost sterile. The music was OK; not my cup of tea (I like heavy electronica, and the electronica dome had a line that was a mile long) But I noticed there was almost zero trash; everyone was well behaved and very respectful.

I was quite amazed; I was actually expecting something more burning-man-like. So I would be quite happy if they expanded this next year to other parts of the park. Its needs full on dance section for club-goers with some good house or breaks.

I’d love to see a latin section with some Latin bands, Aventura, El Gran Combo, Avance…bring in some of these bands, and that will make it a full fledged SF event. These were mostly Indie bands.

Which brings me to something that might be offensive to some people but which needs to be said.

I’m 387. As I walked through the crowd, I could see very very very few people older than 40. I was definitely on the odler end of the people at this event. My suspicion is, and I hate to say this, is that most of the people n this board complaining about the noise are older people. Stereotypical people complaining about noise.

Really, where were you when you were young? IF you are older than 40, take a breath. Step back. Relax. It’s a weekend. It;s not that loud. I am not dimishing your opinion. I understand as people get older they want quiet. But they also are generally more willing to move to places where that quiet exists, rather than forcing it on others who dont want it.

I do no want quiet all the time. Thank you Erik Mar soooo much for bringing his event to our neighborhood. There were many local businesses represented there, and I am very happy they showed. Up. I only wish there were more, and that the music was more diverse. But these are quibbles.

When this comes up next year, or any year, please understand that there are many of us who really really enjoyed this event, and will do everything we can to support it.

Here’s hoping for a bigger and better Outside Lands Next Year!

Meant to say, I’m 38. not 387.

DMan, specifically to you: What bothered me about Tulsa was the attitude of older people. They forget. They forget, litelly, what it was like when they were young. They have no memory of it.

60 yr old people block out the part in their minds what it was like wqhen they were 20, just as 30 yr olds block out what it was like when they were 5.

People forget.

I don’t. I remember what it was like to party when I was 20. And it was RIGHT. And we will fight in this city to stop people from shutting down our fun.

Poppy, people did hear your calls. But I want the music Loud. I will call next year to make sure this event continues and goes strong. What a great event.

I will be calling Ginsburg and Erik Mar;’s numbers tomorrow to let them know how happy I am and 180,000 people are that this event took place. Thank you Erik Mar for bringing his here, and here’s hoping for a bigger event next year.

And thank you all, of course, for providing these numbers; wans’t sure what they were, but now I know. I will be telling all my friends who went to the event to call! Thank you all so much

Well said Nate. As a relative new comer to SF and the Richmond, I cannot say enough about how much I love living here, I so love this district and I say pfft to those that bash it. Not to mention, having to explain that Richmond is so not the same thing as the Richmond. Events like these put the Richmond on the map, give a geography lesson to the rest of SF and the Bay Area.

Yes, the organizers need to work more on setting up stages so that he music stays within the park and also establishing dates so that the event does coincide with the start of school. But with that said, I did love hearing me some John Fogerty while walking home from the market on Geary.

I realize that many people have different tolerances for sound and I respect their opinion. However, these collective opinions do not necessarily reflect all of those that live in the Richmond and Sunset, no matter how loud they state their grieviences.

I am not a 20 something, I am 39 and I did not go the concert, mostly because I did not know until late this year when it was occurring and the line up was not worth plopping down the cash. However, in the future, if REM makes a presence, my happy hiney will be there for the 3-days just as it was in 2003 at ACL.

One more thing:

Dman said:

“That’s actually a GREAT idea! The city owns the Presidio now, don’t they? There are very few residents living there, and a ton of land… it would be perfect for these events!”

If thus is not the very definition of a NIMBY, I do not know what is.

Still up, just caught your e-mail. Your constant NIMBY-calling has become so funny… not one person who keeps calling everybody a NIMBY has suggested having the event in their area! So… who’s the NIMBY?

J, I work in psych. I like rock/techno/modern music, go to clubs fairly often, and have lived in San Francisco long enough to learn that I don’t categorize people by their age. It’s pretty much my home town, have been here almost 35 years so have seen a lot of SF history. I will tell you this very honestly, and not to be mean, but you sound like a guy who’s trouble and needs very badly to take the opposing viewpoint. You have a very passive-aggressive manner (look it up) that grates on others’ nerves, not to mention someone who sounds like he’s emotionally a lot younger than his real age (which I guess is 387, from your posting!). You can definitely tell that you were brought up in Tulsa, and I can see why life was probably pretty hard for you there. Guess what? It’s probably going to be hard for you just about anywhere you go. As someone else noted, you’ve got quite a narcissistic little streak in you.

The concert’s over now. Despite the many people who tried to explain to you how disruptive it was for them, you continued to look the other way and show no concern for any of them but yourself, and you rubbed it in with salt (“Nah. I like loud music. More, please.”). Now you’re trying to use peoples’ age to justify yourself. For what little it matters, I’d say you’ve had a rough life, and you have an even rougher one ahead of you from standing back and getting a look at your attitude.

Does it matter in the long run? No. People like you don’t really change. Since the event is over, this is my last posting, and I’m unsubscribing to this thread now. I leave, however, feeling very happy that I don’t live a life like yours, because it must be a very lonely one.

Good luck.

Sorry, missed your corrective e-mail about being 38. Your postings have struck me more as an angry 14 or 15 year-old with a real adolescent chip on his shoulder.

Well, the two camps seem to be defined here: the people who think that the residents and property owners of a neighborhood should have no say at all about what goes on in their neighborhood, and have no reason at all to be upset when the lands set aside for public use and supported by their tax dollars are fenced off, taken away from them during some of the days during the year when the public would most want to use them…

Should be willing to sit with their floors rattling, their pets and small children scared or unable to sleep, driven to the breaking point by 3 days of bothersome noise…or forced to vacate their homes in order to escape it.

Doesn’t sound like the country I was taught that I live in, where the rights and property of the citizen are paramount — not the desires of the state to do whatever it wants.

I’ll be some of the obnoxious defenders of this event also actually claim to be an “environmentalist” — though they have no concern at all about the damage being done to this section ofthe park through non-stop use for 8 months by events attended by thousands and the scores of people who are camping illegally, ruining plants, leaving untreated sewage wherever they go, bottles, trash and drug paraphernalia all through the park…putting the Park and our houses in danger of fire..and refusing to acknowledge that noise pollution is a serious and acknowledged for fo environmental hazard, too — and somehow insisting that there are no such thing as community noise ordinances, etc.

The hypocrisy of peole who spout a “power to the people, don’t let the government push you around!” ethic about the draft or marijuana laws, etc. — while screaming out the other side of their mouths “I don’t care if the government is running roughshod all over you — because I like MUSE and I like loud music and life is all about ME” is just stunning in its level of dysfunctional infanticism.

Glad there are some people who actually care about their neighborhoods and the great jewel in our crown, Golden Gate Park, and aren’t so eager to see it all destroyed as others clearly are.

I sent my emails this morning — hope those who are upset about this will, too, before their annoyance subsides…

Just a note about Dman’s comment. I haven’t read the whole exchange, just bits and bobs, (Caught the bit from “J” is it?, just moved to the neighborhood, and loves having the concert, and thinks we need to be, “put on the map,” by having a company license our neighborhood, and make multiples of millions with the use of public property while violating public policy with excessive noise. Give him time. He’ll make himself at home after a while, and his apartment and neighborhood will soon stop being “Wonderland.”) One bit… the reference of him being from, “Tulsa,” is a slur comparable to those we are more familiar with, for people of color, gays, women, etc. Our countrymen in the Central United States are going through great struggle, and we may encounter another dust bowl, which brought great impoverished numbers of people to California in the past, which was chronicled in the book and movie, “Grapes of Wrath,” and engendered the slur about the people’s place of origin, “Oakie,” those from Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, and other places destroyed by drought.

I agree with Dman that the heavy use of GGP and the Richmond District for large events needs to rethought. Seems we get the brunt of the citywide events, and it’s starting to feel like we don’t have enough control over our homes, our neighborhood and our lives.

I hope you’ll be able to meet with me on Thursday morning, 9 am, so we can discuss our concerns and start to move forward. Also, it’s really important your voice is heard in City Hall. In addition to contacting Eric Mar and Phil Ginsburg, please try to attend the Commission hearing at 10 am. If enough of us show up we could get some media coverage and help get some traction on this issue.

Onward.

I don’t think people realize how far the sound travels. I live in the Haight and for three days all we heard is the very loud pounding of bass guitars. That is not music. We were literally assaulted by the hidious sound until 10PM. I support music festivals that are conducted in the proper venues. It is unfair to the citizens of San Francisco, who live around the park, who have to endure the NOISE and every other inconvenience. It’s nice that the Berkeley Producer is going to make a lot of money, but why do it on the backs of we who live in the neighborhoods.

This event should be held in a stadium, or in an area where the sound doesn’t travel for miles. It should not be held in a public park, for private gain.

Oops, my last comment was mean to refer to stoirin, as well as everyone else. Sorry about that.

Monday morning, a little after 4 AM, it was finally quiet in my apartment. Yes, in my apartment. I live at the entrance to Outside Lands, in a building my great-grandfather built.

For the past four days, yes four, I have had to listen to security, scalpers, unlicensed merchants of all substances, private boom boxes, amateur drummers set up on my porch, arguments and fights, and general mayhem all beyond the normal sound check and concert noise that I can feel in my teeth, even in my shower.

I have not been able to keep my parking spots free, nor have I been able to leave my front door without clearing it of bottles and trash of all unsavory kinds.

My 84 year-old dad was in the garage with me and once looked out onto the driveway. There was a woman squatting and peeing. How much fun that this particular section drains toward where we were standing?

We’ve had to call police several times and they used to come right away. It seems like every year they get more complacent. The response time this year was ridiculously slow, so that we stopped calling and instead got a bunch of tenants together and all yelled instead.

1.) Wouldn’t it be fitting to have a live feed go out of the concert, and someone to measure the decibels, and set up sound trucks at the mayors residence, the supervisors residences, and Ginsberg’s residence, including whomever else, and match the decibels encountered on our streets in front of their houses. If the promoters drop the decibel level, then it would be dropped in the neighborhoods where these people, these San Francisco employees, who licensed the venue live as well.

If we don’t take control of this, how far can our public figures go to exact profit from our public legacy at our expense? Let’s have a PUBLIC debate, rather than an executive order, concerning how our public resources are used, and let’s go into the debate with a plan in which it is possible for our fine city to gain revenue through the controlled use of public property. It can’t be a unilateral decision by officials who may live in Burlingame. It needs to be an action taken by San Francisco’s citizens, and fair compensation provided for those who are forced to suffer the brunt of our decisions. Maybe some of that enormous profit money can be used to put up the neighbors in the front line of the assault in 5 star accommodations, matching the profitability of the use of the public structures. Maybe we should learn from the past. The concerts from the “Summer of Love,” era were FREE concerts. Maybe we should ban “For-Profit” venues in our neighborhoods.

We could set up some form of compensation measure, and begin to tap those huge profits being generated for private business. There could be a price put on offenses, “Forced to see a participant pee or defacate on your front lawn?, “$X” amount of compensation, calculated in percentage of profit of the venue’s private business. Dealers selling participants substances on your front stoop, (.0067 %, as an example), of the gross profit.”

p.s.; I’m reading the comments through. Are “J” and “Jenn” really residents, or are they representatives of the concert promoters writing in anonymity?

One thing, we know when the next one will be, and we know “Outside Lance,” will be back next year this time. We need a uniform response prepared. Can someone organize us, and help us to be a united front to this assault?

Seabass, where you organize, there will be those of us there organized opposing you.

We now have professional psychologists doing psych evaluations on the internet. Fantastic. Love it.

The level of selfishness here is absurd. You folks want it your way ALL THE TIME. 100% of the time. You can’t deal with noise for a weekend when so many other people are actually paying to get closer to it. Look at the faces of those people enjoyign themselves at the show in the new pics on the blog. What about their rights? Do your rights trump theirs to enjoy their music loudly? No. Of course not.

None of you even went to the event, so you have no idea what was actually there…many local establishments were represented there, even the Fillmore garden co-op had a booth there. Many environmentally sound practices occurring. One stage was even solar powered.

They are doing everything right.

Thank you Erik Mar for bringing this event to out community!

Still treading through it. I see that J. is also writing as Matty J. and Alai. I wonder what that link is to the promoters, and if they really live here?

Bah, not going to read all the comments, but I dug the concert. Yea it’s loud… Yea it’s going to be crowded… Yea the residents that live right by the park will be convinced and complain. Still, I’d rather the city fix all their other crap than worry about 3 days of this concert. That’s all!

No link to any promoters. Not the same person as those other writers. Been in the Richmond for 11 years, 3 years before that in the Sunset.

Still can’t believe that a person can live in the neighborhood and actually want the event to be in the neighborhood. Pretty shocking, huh?

2 1/2 days of music followed by 362 1/2 days of protests by a small group of vocal NIMBYs and geographically scattered full-time activists who pretend to speak for every resident of the city.

After reading through all of the comments on this page (a rather lengthy task), I have come to the conclusion that this is a rather complex and complicated issue. I can empathize with some of the residents that feel like they are held hostage for 3 days every year, and understand the frustration that can mount given the circumstances and commiseration with other residents.

That being said, this is a very unique and important event that takes place in the city and mobilization efforts to shut it down will be met with little sympathy from most people. Compromise is key here, and some posters have had some great ideas to help minimize and even subsidize the inconvenience faced by surrounding residents. That is a great start, however there will always be the loud minority that will demand total silence and view nothing short of abolition as failure. These are the voices that generate the most attention, but not in a constructive or positive way. Take the time in the coming year to thoughtfully and constructively outline the issues that are most important, and you will have a much better chance of obtaining compromise/concessions from the promoters and city representatives.

Can someone direct me to the neighborhood group that is handling the complaints/ protest to this event? We need to mobilize and fix this on-going problem. I am tired of dealing with the various events throughout the years… this one tops them all.

In response to kismetsfo, Jean Barish wrote that, “This Thursday the Rec and Park Commission will be holding its monthly meeting at City Hall, (Van Ness and Grove) Room 416 at 10 a.m. There will be an opportunity for public comment at this meeting…usually 2 or 3 minutes. A good way to express our grievances about Outside Lands and other GGP concerts is to speak at this meeting. We need to show the decision makers “we’re mad as hell and don’t want to take it any more.”

“I plan to attend and hope to see many of you there. I also suggest we meet before the meeting to say hello, compare notes, and talk about what we can do to get City Hall to pay attention to our complaints. I’ll be at the coffee area in–(forget which…) either the East or West Court (of the entrance floor), at 9 am on Thursday wearing a purple scarf. Hope to see you there.”

IF RPD “needs” to have this concert to raise funds then THE FIX IS SIMPLE….move this huge, extremely loud concert OUT of Golden Gate Park! This concert belongs at ATT Park and the parking lot there, like the Hip Hop Concert that was held there and extremely well received. Much better transit available to ATT Park from all parts of Bay Area. Solution – win/ win for park lovers and music lovers.
J – I was at Lake Merced two days in a row and heard the music blaring from the park. That is extreme volume.
Seabass, great idea to attend RPD Commission meeting.
Also, send them emails and ask them to be included in the minutes.
Also, send emails to the Clerk of the Board of Supes and ask to be put on the record. Also, call all Supes especially Mar and Chu.
I love music and went to tons of concerts over the years (a native of SF), but this concert has got to go to another location. The fencing is irresponsible, the volume of the music was irresponsible (yet don’t forget as it says on the Coyote signs in the park to..”respect the wildlife” – hey Phil… where is the respect for the wildlife?). Again, a solution is available… JUST MOVE THIS CONCERT, stop the excessive fencing and extreme noise pollution of GG Park.
For other proposed park projects visit sfoceanedge.org

Don’t Move the concert. The concert is fine where it stands. Feel free to organize:
From SF Gate:

“But Perloff said he believes the city has finally embraced Outside Lands, which attracts a large number of fans visiting from out of town.

“The first couple of years, all you heard about was noise and tow trucks,” Perloff said. “Now you hear about 4,500 jobs and $50 million in revenue coming into the city. I think people finally understand what a festival means for San Francisco. It’s not just a rock concert.”

That’s what you are fighting against. Jobs, and 50 million$ in revenue for the city at a time when we definitely need it. You are not only fighting for selfish uses of the park, you are fighting against money that comes into the cities coffers to pay our bills.

If Mar were to actually listen to you and threaten to shut this down, I would do my best to make sure he gets kicked out of office. You are harming the city of San Francisco by fighting against this event.

Sorry Matty J. , what you said is just not true:”Most people know that trampling on grass makes it stronger, like lifting weights for grass” Compacting soil by having throngs of people walk up and down it compacts the soil so no oxygen can reach it, and causes the plant life to die off. This issue came out in the media last year, that it damages the plant life, as well as disrupting the wildlife, is supposed to be budgeted to be brought back to the health it had before the concert, which did not happen last year, and promotes worsening of the problem, such as by erosion.

Can’t wait for next year’s edition of Outsider’s Land, another three days of torture. I fail to understand what this event has to do with the culture and the people of the real Outside Lands, some of whom have lived in this neighborhood for upwards of 40, 50, 60 years and do not deserve the aural assault for three days straight. The event doesn’t even benefit the local economies of the Sunset and Richmond Districts as the event ends well after most restaurants and cafes close before the last band finishes. The sound pervading the neighborhood is not so much the issue, but you would think the Sunday edition would wrap up by 7 pm as a courtesy to working people in the neighborhood who have to get up for work Monday morning, but no such luck, the music and clogged streets lasted well past 10 pm yesterday. A Central Park concert doesn’t work in SF due to the lack of easily navigated and managed ingress and egress to the park as has been pointed out before, and the blocked off section of the ‘Loin for Sunday Streets only added to the traffic issues. For next year, I’ll just plan a vacation around this event, NIMBYism solved!

Wrong, bizyBackson. The restaurants on Geary stay open late. Have you not read the above comments? Geary was very busy after the event was over. Many restaurants were opened and and they did kille business. All restaurants (except some poor sad Vietnamese place around 23rd and Geary, for some reason) were filled both Saturday and Sunday night.

Many businesses were represented at the event; many local stores, and they even had a farmer’s market! No kidding. The event brings in tons of people to the Richmond, many who stay to experience the nightlife on Geary. You might want to walk around Geary next year after the event and see how well behaved people were…this was nothing like Pride weekend or after we won the World Series…Most people were very respectful, as far as I could tell.

Excerpts from the noise ordinance, pertinence highlighted by ALL CAPS:

REGULATION OF NOISE. SAN FRANCISCO POLICE CODE. ARTICLE 29. exerpts
ARTICLE 29: REGULATION OF NOISE
SEC. 2900. DECLARATION OF POLICY.
(a) Building on decades of scientific research, the World Health Organization and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency have determined that persistent exposure to elevated levels of community noise IS RESPONSIBLE FOR public health problems including, but not limited to: COMPROMISED SPEECH, PERSISTENT ANNOYANCE, SLEEP DISTURBANCE, PHYSIOLOGICAL AND PSYCHOLOGICAL STRESS, HEART DISEASE, HIGH BLOOD PRESSURE, COLITIS, ULCERS, DEPRESSION, AND FEELINGS OF HELPLESSNESS.
(b) The General Plan for San Francisco identifies noise as a serious environmental pollutant that must be managed and mitigated through the planning and development process. But given our dense urban environment. San Francisco has a significant challenge in protecting public health from the adverse effects of community noise arising from diverse sources such as transportation, construction, mechanical equipment, entertainment, and human and animal behavior.
(c) In order to protect public health, it is hereby declared to be the policy of San Francisco to prohibit unwanted, excessive, and avoidable noise. IT SHALL BE THE POLICY OF SAN FRANCISCO TO MAINTAIN NOISE LEVELS IN AREAS WITH EXISTING HEALTHFUL AND ACCEPTABLE LEVELS OF NOISE and to reduce noise levels, through all practicable means, in those areas of San Francisco where noise levels are above acceptable levels as defined by the World Health Organization’s Guidelines on Community Noise.

SEC. 2909. NOISE LIMITS. (2) (c) – (e)
(c) No person shall produce or allow to be produced by any machine or device, or any combination of same, on public property, a noise level more than ten dBA above the local ambient at a distance of twenty-five feet or more, unless the machine or device is being operated to serve or maintain the property or as otherwise provided in this Article.
(d) Fixed Residential Interior Noise Limits.
In order to prevent sleep disturbance, protect public health and prevent the acoustical environment from progressive deterioration due to the increasing use and influence of mechanical equipment, no fixed noise source may cause the noise level measured inside any sleeping or living room in any dwelling unit located on residential property to exceed 45 dBA between the hours of 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. or 55 dBA between the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 10:00p.m. with windows open except where building ventilation is achieved through mechanical systems that allow windows to remain closed.
(e) Noise Caused By Activities Subject To Permits From the City and County of San Francisco.
None of the noise limits set forth in this Section apply to activity for which the City and County of San Francisco has issued a permit THAT CONTAINS NOISE LIMIT PROVISIONS THAT ARE DIFFERENT FROM THOSE SET FORTH IN THIS ARTICLE.
(Added by Ord. 274-72, App. 9/20/72; Ord. 278-08, File No. 081119, App. 11/25/2008)

Except that it is not loud outside of the park. Just because you can hear it outside of the park does not mean it is loud. People are conflating the two.

c) says: it is hereby declared to be the policy of San Francisco to prohibit unwanted, excessive, and avoidable noise.

But you don’t decide what is unwanted. It’s unwanted for you, but wanted for me. It’s excessive for you, not excessive for me. It’s avoidable for you, not avoidable for me (if we want to have an event that draws people from all over the world, which we do.)

Your quote is entirely subjective. Do you think the city was not monitoring the noise with a decibel checker? They had helicopters flying over the event, watching everything. They know very well what the excessive noise limits are, and more to the point, and any specific decibel level can be increased by permit, which they have.

J, thank you for walking the streets of the Richmond on my behalf like a common street tramp. I defer to your superiority as a Richmond District resident for 11 years! Only proves what an outsider you still are. Please, please move back to Tulsa or to CPW or Queens Blvd in NYC. You’re the kind of newbie that has ruined and poisoned what was formerly a great neighborhood, and take your “noise” with you.

Sorry J, but I walked my dog in the Presidio on the path to Baker Beach last night and could hear the concert loud and clear. Could hear the applause, the lyrics and the feedback from the bass. I can only imagine what it was like closer to the venue.

On Saturday night, i could hear it loud and clear in my house with all the windows closed and i live at 15th and Clement.

It is very loud outside of the park — people reported the same from the outer Sunset, Lake Merced, Noe Valley, Diamond Heights, the Haight, Lake Street and so on.

Nice attempt of the old, “Bob and weave,” but truly, to say that my quoting of San Francisco law is entirely subjective? Come on. Could it be that your perception of fact is subjective?

The facts as cited above, are that,
1.) The prohibited noise level is more than ten dBA above the local ambient,
2.) the noise source may not cause the noise level measured inside any sleeping or living room in any dwelling unit located on residential property to exceed 45 dBA between the hours of 10:00 p.m. to 7:00 a.m. or 55 dBA between the hours of 7:00 a.m. to 10:00p.m. with windows open except where building ventilation is achieved through mechanical systems that allow windows to remain closed, and
3.) in order for a variance of the ordinance, the permit must be amended with specific language stating the variance.

No one would write their own unsupported variance to the statutes, for the ordinance protects the city, and city employees from litigation, but if a city official were to rewrite their own limits, they would lose the protection of the ordinance, and any venture they would pursue would be open to unlimited court action. (I state that as an interpretation of a non-attorney, and am not giving legal advise.)

By the way, Decibel readings were discussed with the police department over the weekend, and there was no monitoring of specific decibel readings according to them.

I’m working my way through the entire post. One thing, I am not against entertainment. I take a diametrically opposite position in another area. In the South of Market area, there was a building boom, and many people moved into the area, and then complained about the venues that had been there for years. I opposed that gentrification of an area that has been well defined for decades. It’s like people who move next to an airport, then want to shut it down because they can’t sleep. GOLDEN GATE PARK, BY CITY CHARTER, HAS A STATED GOAL TO BE A PLACE THAT ENCOURAGES A WILDERNESS-LIKE SETTING, AND THE ENCOURAGEMENT OF WILDLIFE. (Wild partying is not part of that wildness, for those of the subjective measurement limitations camp, and feral humans, though exhibiting wild behavior, are inherently domesticated.) Hey! Just take the party to some undeveloped parcel where noisy nightlife has been the norm over decades. As Aunt Ester used to say, “Rent a room!”

Seabass, we do not know what the citis’ measurements of the additional dBA is. Like you, I would be interested in that, and if it does go over the limit it should be turned down.

However, my suspicion is that what the city measures is vastly different than what people think it is. Of course we all know they have professionsl measurements being taken by the city. I would agree that the city needs to release that info.

But at the end of the day, the city can write a permit for an event that exceeds the dba specified between 7:00pm and 10:00 pm.

And just because many people find it loud doesnt mean others don’t. Many people, as evidenced in this board and others, have no problem with the noise. At the end of the day, your right to quiet does not trump my right to have noise.

If the city is not monitoring the decibel readings, I would certainly agree it should. Even though the Police may not be monitoring it, my assumption is that the people with the Park and Rec do have someone there.

However, I was at the event. It wasn’t that loud. And many agree with me.

hey bizy, guess what….not moving anywhere. I love my neighborhood. I think the Richmond is the best neighborhood in the city, for various reasons. I would never move “back to Tulsa” because that town is filled with people who want nothing more than peace and quiet every day of the year. Fortunately, there’s 180,000 people and counting who want a little noise in their city every once in a while.

If you want peace and quiet, YOU move to Tulsa. lol.

Re. the noise level of the concert, see Aly’s post at #68. Sounds unacceptably loud to me.

enjoying Dman’s perspective… of COURSE j. was there. Employees have a free pass, right?

Poppy’s Penal code,
415. Any of the following persons shall be punished by imprisonment
in the county jail for a period of not more than 90 days, a fine of
not more than four hundred dollars ($400), or both such imprisonment
and fine:
(1) Any person who unlawfully fights in a public place or
challenges another person in a public place to fight.
(2) Any person who maliciously and willfully disturbs another
person by loud and unreasonable noise.
(3) Any person who uses offensive words in a public place which
are inherently likely to provoke an immediate violent reaction.

Jean Barish, left a message with you via Sarah B, the administrator, with my e-mail address. Need to communicate with you re: the upcoming meeting.

Wasn’t going to continue with the all this debating since the concert was over, but happened to read yesterday’s (today’s?) article on SFGate hailing the “success” of the festival with no mention whatsoever of the neighbors’ complaints. I voiced my opinion in the comments section on SFGate:

12:45 PM on August 15, 2011

This is probably one of the most inaccurate articles I’ve seen the Chronicle put out. It sounds like propaganda. As a resident in the Richmond, many, MANY of us were calling the police and having to deal with the noise, people defecating/urinating on lawns, parking issues, and all-night partying after the festival would end. The Chronicle has made no mention of this whatsoever, and as a union shop steward I’m finding more and more of their articles (especially Adachi/budget-related and/or Union settlements with the city) to be outright lies. The Chronicle seems to have become a puppet for City Hall, rather than a voice of the people who live here.

About 20 or so minutes later:

1:11 PM on August 15, 2011

Just re-read the article: “And even though the promoters had installed 500 portable toilets, a few fans opted to take advantage of the park’s natural terrain instead.”

Isn’t that adorable?

Perloff and Another Planet were probably the poorest organizers I’ve ever seen for a concert. They continually told callers on their “hot line” that they would turn down the blasting music, but seemed to turn it up instead. This was by far the ugliest Outside Lands concert the city has put on since it started. Eric Mar, our Richmond district supervisor, went along with it all like Howdy Doody on strings. He’s made no concessions, apologies or statements to the residents of his district whatsoever.

My comments were posted, and then promptly removed as a “terms of service” violation. I’m not seeing any profanity I’ve written here. Obviously my observations are correct: the Chronicle no longer believes in free speech. I’m pretty appalled over this.

Also, just read over others’ comments from this board since last night: why are people still letting J pull their chains? Ignore him and he’ll go away. He’s clearly enjoying the rise he’s getting out of you all, and this is the kind of thing he thrives on. There are a lot more important things to concentrate on at this point.

J. we’ve established that you have no capacity for facts, and once presented with them with their citations, you call them subjective, fail to absorb the content of stated facts, and immediately argue against proven issues. It is a complete waste of time to address you in any way. You carry on like a petulant child. From this point forward, your presence here, to me, is like the wind blowing. Though the wind has its voice, I don’t speak the wind language, but merely endure it. I hope you find like minded people whom you can converse on an even level, somewhere I am not.

Well said Dman. The level of selective reporting of issues is appalling.

Called Erik Mar and Phil Ginsburg this evening. Left them both a message. Main points were that I was very pleased with the way the event turned out; the noise level was acceptable to me, and it was one of the most efficient events I’ve seen the city put on. Did not have any problems with crowds when I was there’ lines moved quickly, and didn’t run into too many drunken crazy people.

I also mentioned the fact that many restaurants and businesses in the Richmond saw a lot of added business during and after the event, and this is a good thing. I made it clear that there is a loud vocal group of people who do not want this event to continue, but that he ought to know there is a significant group of people who live in the neighborhood who do. I thanked him for allowing this event to be in our neighborhood despite the protests, and that I hope it will come back in following years.

Hey, J, don’t knock Tulsa! You’re a resident of Richmond District only if you remember going into King Norman’s, Bookplace, Lazy Susan, QFI, et. al. Otherwise, you’re just a transient marking time waiting to move on to the next “golden opportunity.”

You may even love this event to death, but have you really asked your neighbors if they were home this weekend, how they really felt? The sweet old lady next door or down the street, or the young family in the duplex across the way? Do you even know or bother to know who they are?

I’m not disputing that this music doesn’t have its place, it’s just that it shouldn’t be shoved down the entire neighborhood’s throat, not to mention the traffic concerns. I am glad that you are proponent of this event, and dismissing the concerns of an inconvenienced “NIMBY” few, but hey, if you live in the Richmond, you ARE a NIMBY and should be proud of it. If you want people to show the love for this event, try a little less vitriol and a little more honey. Being really self-absorbed doesn’t help your case much.

Sincerely,
An Old NIMBY

After 166 comments, I don’t think people will get this far. But just in case city officials are reading this, I figure I’ll speak up.

First off, I live at 22nd and Anza – so not RIGHT on the park, but still pretty close.

1) For me, the music is tolerable. I understand that it is for just a few days, and that I CHOSE to live in a city near a large park. If I wanted a place that was quiet 100% of the time, I would move to Walnut Creek.

2) I recognize that Richmond Businesses are getting GREAT crowds from this event. Sure, they might be some of the ruder customers, but they are boosting profits. I also recognize that the city is making decent money from this event. If we didn’t host it, our taxes (or something) would just need to be higher to make up for it.

3) The crowds do get a bit…erm…questionable. I know police were increased for it, but I do think it needs to be higher. I think people complaining about the sound above just need to recognize that they live in a city. People will stop calling you NiMBY if you stop acting like it. Sometimes the world doesn’t do what you want, live with it. HOWEVER, no one should have people dealing drugs on their front steps, urinating on their car tires (saw that happen many times) and generally being a jerk. At the end of the concert, police should be scattered everywhere around the neighborhoods.

Just my two cents as a Richmond Resident.

Hey, got involved in a phone call and didn’t get a chance to post this half an hour or so ago: my postings on SF Gate were NOT deleted, but somehow never showed up on my Iphone. They are, however, on my desktop p.c. on SFGate’s site, so please disregard my rant that they’d been censored.

stop this improper use of the park. money making enterprises such as this concert do not belong in our park. it has been designed for peace and for nature. this event belongs at shoreline, concord pav or at&t. there are coyotes and foxes and hawks that don’t have a choice as to where to be. saying nothing about the neighbors affected by this nonsense. i am one of them. stop the usrping of our natural resources for money making.

The insults on here are getting quite deep. Although not directed to me, I do find the statement: “You’re a resident of Richmond District only if you remember going into King Norman’s, Bookplace, Lazy Susan, QFI, et. al. Otherwise, you’re just a transient marking time waiting to move on to the next ‘golden opportunity'” to be quite offensive. I call this place home and will continue to do so for a long time. We (my husband and I) moved here purposely and we searched long and hard before choosing the Richmond when moving here. We love this neighborhood for all the dynamics it provides and I have yet to see another place within the city that I would prefer.

With that said, even if I am a “newbie,” I do have a voice that should be heard, just as loudly as anyone else that has lived here for 50+ years. I agree with the concert being in place in GGP, but I also respect that others do not think the same. If the total popular vote decides (by supervisor and commissioner directive) that the festival be moved, then so be it. But if this occurs, I do request it no longer be called “Outside Lands” since this is OUR moniker.

But if these actions come to fruition, please keep in mind; there will always be events or just every-day life that will create bugger with regards to noise, parking, illegal actions, and littering from others within our neighborhood, other parts of the city, state, and the nation.

mel, I find that statement more amusing than offensive. No better way to ensure that most “residents of the Richmond District” agree with the anti point of view than by redefining “resident” to exclude everyone under 35.

Anyway, I enjoyed the concert. While discount tickets would have been nice, the free seating you could get outside the fence was pretty good, with an unobstructed view of the Speedway Meadow stage.

One upside to the sound carrying– I get a kick out of telling people that I listened to Radiohead live in my backyard.

(And for the whatever it’s worth, I was born here, and I post under no other name, thank you very much, because apparently that’s important.)

@Alai: My upside was yesterday, clipping some rosemary and hanging a bit in the backyard to hear John Fogerty complete his set.

This discourse is great.. Most important, if those of us who were unhappy with the concert want to see change, we need to take action and be heard. I hope you can come to the meeting of the Rec & Park Commission on Aug. 18, 10 am, Rm. 416, City Hall and let the decision-makers hear how we feel.

Hope to see you there.

@J: I would never move “back to Tulsa” because that town is filled with people who want nothing more than peace and quiet every day of the year. Fortunately, there’s 180,000 people and counting who want a little noise in their city every once in a while.

J, you keep saying that people who have a problem with the crowds and noise are demanding peace-and-quiet 365 days a year, no compromise. I haven’t read one posting on this blog where anyone says that. And I haven’t read one posting from anyone opposing aspects of these concerts who insists they speak for all Richmond and Sunset residents.

However, I do read your ongoing posts insisting that you and the other 179,999 people loved the loud music and the crowds. Yeah, I’m sure you wouldn’t presume to speak for all of them had you not personally surveyed each and every one of them yourself to arrive at your conclusion, right?

Oh, and as for your assertion that 180,000 people “want a little noise in their city every once in a while”–it’s not “their” city unless they live here. Many (most?) of them do not live here, and as such they do not have the “right” to trash the park and our neighborhood. Neither do people who love here, but the opinions of visitors do not take presidence over tax-paying city residents. How strange that you should believe otherwise.

Perhaps next year you’ll advertise you address so people come on over and take a leak, vomit, get into fights, whoop it up until 3 or 4 a.m., and otherwise be as LOUD and obnoxious as possible. It’s all good, right? It’ll put us on the map. The more people, the merrier. And BTW, I’m 29, I love going to concerts of all kinds of music (except country–I’ll admit it). So, another one of your stereotypes down the drain.

Dear Alai, It may help if you learned a bit about who Rec and Park answers to (or does NOT answer to) and learn a bit more about the issues that have been swirling around the west side of the Park for a couple of years now. New water treament plant. Stadium lights and fake turf for soccer fields (intotal violation of the plan for the west side of the Park and existing night sky ordinances for the area), Charging to get into the Botanical Gardens. Proposal to install parking meters throughout the Park. You may come to see that the concern many long time residents of this area have is not directed against people who are new bcause they are new but because we are shocked and worried about what seems to clearly be the plan to turn GG Park from a free public space into a amusement park/sports arena/Hollywood Bowl.

We are trying to see the big long term picture. And its really disheartening to read people saying they don’t care if the city tramples all over their rights and privileges because the like the event. That isn’t the point. If their favorite piece of the park were shut fenced and shut down to accommodate a gropu that paid BIG oney for the privilege, but for something they didn’t like — say a religious revivial meeting or a group supporting the war in Afghanistan, I have a feeling they’d be very much opposed to it and use all the same reasons that others have given for objecting to OL. You either defend your rights when they are trampled on for ANY reason — or you lose them. It’s the thin end of the wedge…and the wedge has been getting pretty thick lately.

The Golden Gate Park Preservation Alliance has monitored the festival since its inception for damage to Golden Gate Park.
1. While the festival has made improvements, there are still a few problems. We will be writing them up for the Recreation and Park Commission meeting this week (Thursday, 10:00 a.m., City Hall. See RPD website for more information.) We encourage everyone to attend that meeting and express your concerns with the Festival directly to the Commissioners and to the Department. You may speak at the beginning of the meeting during General Public Comment or, if the festival is mentioned in either the President’s or General Manager’s report, you may address your comments at that time.
2. It is also vital to write and call ALL of the Supervisors and the Mayor. There is now an intense mayoral race — contact all the candidates and let them know your concerns not only for the impact on our neighborhoods but also for the potential damage to the park, the potential impact on the wildlife that lives in the Park, and the loss of use of parkland to the residents of San Francisco.
3. It should be noted that the festival was originally promoted by Rec and Park as a benefit festival for Golden Gate Park. That restriction of funds did not even last the first year, when part of the revenue was siphoned off to other Rec and Park expenses. Since that time, none of the revenue has been earmarked for the Park.
4. This bring up other questions about how Rec and Park spends its money, which can be followed by reading some of George Wooding’s articles in the Westside Observer (available on-line).
5. We will email past reports on damage caused by the major festivals to anyone who requests them. Contact us through our website: http://www.goldengateparkpreservation.org
(We tried to post this earlier but do not see it — if this is a duplicate, our apologies.)

LISTEN UP! I live in the richmond on the edge of the park and I fully and whole heartedly support Outside Lands.

ANYONE who opposes Outside Lands for 3-days of the year is selfish…. PERIOD. Three days out of the year is all they ask and Outside Lands provides the following benefits (I already heard all the cons so please dont repost those):

1. Our city makes a Million dollars every year from Outside Lands. In case you didn’t notice our city is broke and really needs this revenue.

2. Outside Lands brings outsides into the city to spend money in our local businesses and MUNI, this stimulates the local economy.

3. Outsiders visiting from the concert realize how beautiful out city is and that in turn attracts talent young folks to want to live in our city, this is good for the cities talent pool, landlords, house purchases etc… Without people moving into our city our city would empty out as it becomes more and more expensive to live here each day.

4. Our city thrives on diversity, Outside lands brings and promotes diversity by attracting a large range of individuals to attend.

5. Many local in the Richmond and other neighborhood welcome and look forward to outside lands, giant concerts are very rare in Golden Gate Park. This is why I am speaking up.

6. Many more reasons.

BOTTOM LINE: be accepting, dont resist, when you do you enjoy life as it should be, which is the way it is, you cant change what is, it simply is!!

Renee, thank you for responding.

There are a number of posts here by people should simply don’t want the event here. They object primarily for two reasons.
1) It’s too loud/obnoxious/disruptive
2) It’s a corporate event; corporations shouldn’t be able to block of part of the park for what is in essence a private event.

I understand these concerns and objections. It’s just I disagree with them.
I believe, quite reasonably, that people who live near the park should be able to enjoy the park in the way they see fit for the vast majority of the time. So when I say 363 days of the year, I’m referring to the non-OL time of the year when no park of the park is blocked off privately.
But I believe it is quite reasonable to block off part of the park for a private event that the public clearly wishes to see and is willing to pay to see.

For three days, that means that other people may be inconvenienced. I don’t have a problem with that, and many people here don’t as well. There are times during which I am inconvenienced by events in San Francisco, and I deal with it; it’s part and parcel of living in a big city. And in fact, I don’t mean to sound vitriolic when I mention that it really is selfish to demand that the park is never loud and, yes, irritating to neighbors, which is essentially what is being demanded here. (I’m a neighbor). I just think that is unreasonable to demand this.

“However, I do read your ongoing posts insisting that you and the other 179,999 people loved the loud music and the crowds. Yeah, I’m sure you wouldn’t presume to speak for all of them had you not personally surveyed each and every one of them yourself to arrive at your conclusion, right?”

Well, they did vote with their $ to see the event. Presumably they did not have a problem with the noise, as they paid to see/hear it.

People always complain about vomit/trash/drunks/ and so forth after every big event. I understand that…but most of the people at the event were quite respectful and didn’t go crazy. Perhaps the 9$ cost of beers and wines had something to do with that; they were checking people for alcohol before they got into the event. So, crazy drunkards are the exception and not the rule. In any event, that’s not a reason to shut down the event or move it; it’s just a reason to be very vigilant about this sort of thing and to deal with troublemakers.

I agree that the city should monitor the noise level; if there no one from Park and Rec is monitoring the decibel level I would be surprised. From a compromise standpoint, I’d be curious to see if the event exceeded the cityies permit limits, whatever those are; the city should definitely have something in the contract about decibel levels at certain areas. That being said, those of us neighbors attending the event are not paying to hear a quiet event; we do want to be able to hear the music loud and clear, even if others are temporarily unfortunately inconvenienced.

A lot has been brought up about the corporate nature of this event…and I mentioned earlier a lot of misinformation is being spread. The entire park is not fenced off. Only a portion of it is. I walked through the park from the Haight to the event, east to west, and you literally could not hear any music on Hippy Hill or from the panhandle. It was only until you got to 25th, which is more than halfway through the park before you could hear anything on Sunday, and I am not even kidding. Maybe the trees blocked out the sound, I dunno, but you would have had no idea an event was even occurring had you walked that route.

Anyway, the city blocks off parts of the city all the time to corporate events. The entire Union square is blocked off on a number of occasions for corporate events. There’s nothing wrong with this. Many many people from the city and beyond want to see this event, they have no problem paying for it, and we do not feel our rights to enjoy the park are being trampled on.

I’m sorry, I should amend that; You started to hear the concert at Park Presidio before it crosses over to Crossover Drive, going west. so, 19th. Not 25th. Before that, around Stow Lake, and other places to the east, it was dead quiet. This was Sunday during the day.

Something i haven’t noticed being mentioned is that the noise in the surrounding neighborhoods was *much* worse than last year’s festival. They responded to complaints from ’09 with improved speaker placement, among other things, and it was really quite reasonable. This year was far and away the worst it’s ever been, and if residents can still be more persuasive than money (which, unhappily, i rather doubt) i’d expect to see improvements next year.

J, I think you’ve written close to a dozen posts here repeating the same points over and over again. Now you’ve toned it down a little and are contradicting yourself again: first you liked and demanded music, now suddenly it’s perfectly understandable to you that the decibel level be monitored. Not sure what the others on the forum think, but reading the same disagreements and your rationalizations for them over and over again is becoming really monotonous. How about if we move on to something else now?

Sorry, on my Iphone on my lunch break: that was “at first you liked and demanded LOUD music…”

First, Alai, I didn’t mean to dis you. I reacted to one person who was posting, (everything about that poster has left my mind. Was it a ghost?) who started a discussion in one personae, and finished the sentence or thought in a new personae. I sincerely apologize.¶

It’s not about denigrating those who came from somewhere else. San Francisco is unique, and many arrive, trying on a new paradigm of existence, for example, discovering that one can completely do away with a vehicle. But many approach it from a sophist mindset, and try, for example, to demand that everyone else does away with a vehicle as well. Take the City worker. He probably has to show up at work at any time of the day or night. He might get a call to be at work within a half hour at eleven at night. That call may come in at any time of the day or night. Then there are the workers who have 1,500 pounds of equipment to navigate to work. I once was refused entry onto a bus with an empty hand truck.

The point is, the new kid in town comes in full of inspiration and ideas, and after a period of time, if he or she has a bit of intelligence, they find that their fresh perspective—though it tingles and makes them feel great—fails to reinvent the wheel that has been invented by a people who are long-time residents of a place where the usual rules don’t apply.

They begin to see how things are, but about this time, there is a new movement of people fresh to the city ready to reinvent the wheel all over again. Also, they often find themselves changed, where they were someone with a backpack and a laptop, now they find themselves with a partner, and a child at home, with diapers and bulk toilet paper to buy so as to afford both items, and tremendous demand on their schedule. Then, some boy, (be he eighteen or fifty eight), tells them to move to the Ozarks if they don’t like his cunning plan.

It isn’t a matter of being the outsider to an exclusive club; it is the matter of coming into a community, and having the will to be a part of the people already there hashing it out on a daily basis. Welcome one and all. We have a structure of rules, codified in the City Charter, and the Master Plan for Golden Gate Park. Politicians sometimes want to change the rules for various reasons, not least among them that the lobbyist would like to buy them off. We have to work hard to retain our heritage, whether it is our new heritage gained over the Summer when we moved in, or the heritage of our parents and great grandparents in a house with the bedroom where their great grandparent was born.

I know it’s thrilling to have such goings-on on a regular basis, but let’s all look around, old and new, and rather than see adversaries, find ourselves looking at neighbors. Let’s say it is OK to pester your neighbor on occasion when it is unavoidable, but let’s say that our hearts are poised to facilitate our neighbors, and let that directive be before our eyes and with Post-Its on our hearts, and let’s prove to the rest of the nation that we truly ARE a people who know how.

I am willing to be inconvenienced by my neighbor—as a gesture of conciliation—with limits. The Master Plan of the park states that the park is a place set aside for recreation, and for encouraging the proliferation of nature and wildlife. Don’t you think it is cool that red-tailed hawks nest in the trees, that you can find raccoons, skunks, possum, foxes, and even coyotes in our midst? Quail, owls, and peregrine falcons? I crossed paths with a bobcat that stood 24 inches at the shoulder across the bay in the headlands. It may not mean anything to you, but if it is like a houseplant you forgot to water for six months, you can’t water it with a 55 gallon drum of water come Christmas and expect its survival. It needs to be coaxed continually.

Do you think the promoters randomly chose Golden Gate Park? They chose it because it adds to the venue, in that it is natural. The act of despoiling the site is of no concern. It is a commodity to be used to derive their profit. This difference in the venue doesn’t put San Francisco on the map, it puts the promoters on the map. They can transform the degradation of the natural environment into a large payday.

Trust me, plant this idea in your mind, and like the unique flora in the park, you won’t have to work it. It will grow of its own accord. Sure, you like certain things today, but someday, you will like different things. Wouldn’t it be a shame if you were finally ready to embrace the nature of the park, but it was covered with an inch thickness of rubber? Do we want to be like the state of Texas, that jumps to the will of big business, but you can’t go swimming in the surf without getting clumps of tar from the off shore oil wells? (Too far away? You can swim with the oil rigs in Santa Barbara, and get free tar. They could advertise it, Go swimming, and get free tar!) Where the tide turns red because the toxic runoff from the rivers kills all the life in the Gulf? I’ve seen Gulf shrimp advertised on restaurant menus, and I appreciate it. You wouldn’t catch ME eating Gulf shrimp.

Sure, people come from all over the nation and the world, but they don’t come to witness the degradation of the natural environment. They come BECAUSE of the natural environment, the same environment that was salted with arsenic back home, that was scraped of all topsoil to extract the coal, that was laid waste to make room for high-rises. I hope we can all appreciate what a special place we live in, and it isn’t because of some Indie bands. Enjoy the music, but begin to allow the seed of the idea that the park is not the place for it. Take the venue somewhere where it’s suitable. Save Golden Gate Park, one of our legacies.

Golden Gate Park isn’t natural at all. We covered the natural sand dunes more than a century ago.

The road closures for Golden Gate Park happened before the concert ever started. Middle Dr was closed at least a week prior to the show and has not opened as of Monday 6pm. Further the closure of Middle Drive was not listed on any notice from OL or SFMTA. Given the amount of time it was closed prior to the show, my expectations are not high that it will reopen anytime this week. It’s at least a few weeks inconvenience for any bicyclist who uses Middle Drive. It’s nearly car free and only has 2 or 3 stops over a distance of 1.5 miles so it is a very attractive bike route despite some dilapidated pavement.

Initially the gates on Middle Drive were open and there were vehicles inside so I tried to enter. The guard threw up his arms and stepped in front of me giving me only about 25ft to stop from a decent pace and asked “WTF do you think you’s doing? Road’s closed!” His two cohorts were dying of laughter as if the road should be obvious. No signs were posted on the fence nor does anything on OL or SFMTA website mention this closure.

On Friday 8/12, the roads were not open to bicyclists. Pedestrians were still allowed though – I watched a few runners go in on the sidewalk in the morning. The 41st Ave/Chain of Lakes entrance on the Sunset side and the 43rd/Chain of Lakes on Richmond was completely barricaded at 7am and and 4pm respectively. I backtracked to Irving and Cabrillo to use Great Highway instead.

On Saturday I did notice that the 48th Ave & Lincoln entrance was open to bicycles but not automobiles. Once inside the park, MLK and JFK were open to pedestrians and bicycles. Despite restriction of autos, there were still hundreds of cars lining the streets inside. The Meadows and Polo field area was closed off as well as Middle Drive.

The other big thing for me was that MLK and JFK were also lined with big piles of horse feces that were still there on Monday 6pm.

Curiously the concert did not sound loud at all inside the park along MLK or JFK but I could hear the noise from as far as SFSU.

Just a couple points:
• I live at Anza and Arguello, across from Rossi Park
• I could hear the music most days, but don’t think it was too loud.
• On weekday afternoons, I like to take naps with the window open. I hear noise from the Rossi ballfields, folks playing basketball, cars, and the occasional siren. Sometimes I get woken up, but the benefits of living next to the park are worth it.
• I’m really looking forward to HSB in a couple months.
• Seems like there’s a huge opportunity for companies like Bauer to throw charter buses at the end-of-show transport problem. If they could get a protected spot to load away from the traffic on Fulton and Lincoln, and sell $5 tickets to take people downtown, to BART, hotels, or Caltrain, they’d make a killing and help out at the same time. (Heck, I thought of getting in my car and driving down to Fulton to see if I could take some people somewhere for $20 or so)
• Count me in with the bloc that thinks that the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

An amusing thought (at least it amuses me) – I am a fan of opera. I just saw Wagner’s Ring here in SF, at the opera house. It is about 20 hours of opera. How about staging it at the Polo Field for a whole weekend, as loudly as this rock concert was. I’d love to hear Wagner all the way to Diamond Heights. I have a right, don’t I? Anybody who doesn’t like the music is an oaf and should move out of SF.

@Juna – I like that idea and wouldn’t be opposed to it.

The real problem is that the opera is making people PAY to enter a PUBLICLY OWNED building in the opera house. Some of that cheese that they’re making should be spread around to the community.

Just because I thought it was something important that got drowned out in a lot of the discussion here, I wanted to restate the importance SFGate quote that J made earlier.
—-
From SF Gate:

“But Perloff said he believes the city has finally embraced Outside Lands, which attracts a large number of fans visiting from out of town.

“The first couple of years, all you heard about was noise and tow trucks,” Perloff said. “Now you hear about 4,500 jobs and $50 million in revenue coming into the city. I think people finally understand what a festival means for San Francisco. It’s not just a rock concert.”
—-

Although the concert promoters *do* make a profit off of the event (heck – they should get paid for what is probably a very stressful job!), there is a positive economic impact to the area and the city as a whole. It could be possible that local businesses depend on the profit bump during Outside Lands in order to stay in business? There are legitimate complaints of unlawful behavior (public urination, overnight camping, drug dealing, etc. etc.), but I think there are a lot of people, Sunset and Richmond residents included, who benefit from the 3-day festival – even if it’s not directly from the price of the tickets. I, for one, would hope that efforts can be spent to make improvements to the event in order to meet someplace in the middle – reducing impact to residents but allowing music-loving patrons to enjoy a beautiful outdoor venue while spending their hard-earned dollars at the local businesses. Surely we can agree that there is measurable benefit to “3 days of noise violations”?

The concert does make $$ for Rec & Park, but as far as giving the local economy a “bump,” it’s my understanding that is yet to be quantified. I’ve heard that some folks from Stanford are planning to study this issue, but so far I don’t believe there’s any hard data. One can hope…

“Noise violation” shouldn’t be trivialized. See our own regs:

ARTICLE 29: REGULATION OF NOISE
SEC. 2900. DECLARATION OF POLICY.
(a) Building on decades of scientific research, the World Health Organization and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency have determined that persistent exposure to elevated levels of community noise is responsible for public health problems including, but not limited to: compromised speech, persistent annoyance, sleep disturbance, physiological and psychological stress, heart disease, high blood pressure, colitis, ulcers, depression, and feelings of helplessness.
b) The General Plan for San Francisco identifies noise as a serious environmental pollutant that must be managed and mitigated …

Just like any other form of environmental pollution, noise pollution must be taken very seriously. Imagine if the Richmond District was exposed to smoke or a noxious gas for 3 days. I suspect that would would not be tolerated. Noise pollution should get the same attention. I hope the concert planners will sit down with members of the community, listen to our concerns, and work together to mitigate the noise pollution and other problems caused by Outside Lands and other GGP events.

Very nicely said, Seabass.

I researched the Statute, but it was restated here. I am not Ms. Barish.

I note that the regulation of noise policy posted above notes “persistent exposure to elevated levels of community noise” This of course is subjective, as is what constitutes elevated. The music is not loud to many people in the neighborhood, and this should be taken into account. The fact that you can hear the event nearby does not mean the elevated level is in any way damaging to you. If this regulation of noise were accurate, we’d need to shut down the city, as parts of the city are continually noisy.

We should not decide to have or not have events in San Francisco based upon the possibility that someone nearby might experience “compromised speech, persistent annoyance, sleep disturbance, physiological and psychological stress, heart disease, high blood pressure, colitis, ulcers, depression, and feelings of helplessness”. This is not a reason to shut down or move an event which 180,000 people attend, which brings many benefits to the neighborhood which outweigh people’s irritations at the population of people attending the event, and which promotes San Francisco as a lively place to live, visit, and enjoy music. The anecdotal evidence of people who live nearby who claim to be physically negatively affected are outweighed by the anecdotal evidence of the people who live nearby who claim not to be affected; many of them have posted here as well.

The post says that “The General Plan for San Francisco identifies noise as a serious environmental pollutant that must be managed and mitigated …” I would agree. But what is noise to you is not noise to many people in the neighborhood.

Being able to hear music from your apartment until 10pm on two nights of the year is not the same as noxious smoke or gas for three days. Fortunately the city leaders take this into account when allowing events like this to occur.

I also hope the concert planners will sit down with members of the community, and understand that there are many of us who live here who have no problem with the noise level, are glad the event is here, and wish for it to continue in its present form.

I should amend this:
“The anecdotal evidence of people who live nearby who claim to be physically negatively affected are outweighed by the anecdotal evidence of the people who live nearby who claim not to be affected; many of them have posted here as well.” to mean countered by. The claims of those who are not affected don’t outweigh the claims of those who say they are, but they are no less valid.

Not to raise this from the dead, but I am curious, how did things go during the meeting on August 18?

melissa

It’s interesting to see that those whose homes adjoing the park, particularly in the Sunset, are expected to endure three days of amplified bass and drums invading their homes.

Why is it thought undreasonable to reduce the overall sound pollution from the concert to levels that are undetectable in nearby residents’ homes?

Oh, I forgot — lots of people have paid money to be herded into an area where they can spend more money. Screw the neighbors, then…

Hi,

There are more than a few people on both sides of the Park who are fed up with the situation as is. Pressure is on Supr. Mar to get the Parks to meet with residents. Suggest you contact Carmen Chiu and say you’re fed up with the stonewalling that’s been going on and demand a meeting. People on both sides of the Park need to band together here. The number of maor events, their length and the number of attendees grows every year. People can say NIMBY al lthey want to but this is a serious threat to th quality of our neighborhoods — people who woul dhave bought houses on Lincoln or Fulton or a few doors down the sidestreets are going to start thinking twice when they know that for some 20 days out of the summer, they are going to be dealing with huge areas fenced off. but 3 or 4 VAST events and all hassles, noise and problems that come with them.

We should probably choose and place and time and get together. And talk to your neighbors..sound them out and point out how many events — and how huge the attendance at them — vs ten years ago. At this rate, in another 5 years, we’ll be living next to a full-fledged ampitheatre with huge concerts every week (why take the fencing down, once you’ve put it up?)

How did things go at the meeting? My understanding is that Commission member David Lee suggested that a meeting with Richmond district residents might be a good idea. And Ginsburg and Buell said they weren’t interested. End of discussion on that topic. Lee lives in the Richmond, so don’t be surprised if Ginsburg tries to cite that as an instance when he listened to residents of the Richmond and gave a timely and appropriate response to the issue of concern…

We’re in the process of setting up public meetings with Mar and hopefully the SFPD, and we’ll also have a peition we need as many people to sign as possible… it will be online, specifically for those in the area who are affected by the concerts, and will be posting the URL as soon as possible. We need as many signatures/emails as possible, so contact your neighbors, etc., and ask them for their support too.

David Lee is the only RPD Commissioner that has any concern for what the people of this City say about our parks. Buell and all others are under the influence of the Ginsburg lying machine. This is why, next time it is on the ballot, we need to vote to support that RPD Commission is not picked by Mayor only, but BOS and Mayor 50/50.
Please visit http://www.takebackourparks.org to get involved in protecting OUR parks!

FYI.. Farewell to Stow Lake Boathouse…
Saturday, September 10th at Noon at the boathouse.
RPD did a number on the current tenants who were on a month to month lease for over 5 years.
RPD had Tourke/Ground Floor PR firm tell the soon to be new tenants a corporation from New Mexico, to pay people to give public testimony in their favor… And guess what, they did! Dirty, dirty backroom deals. RPD management must go.

Learning more and more about this guy Ginsburg of Park and Rec, everybody who mentions him says he’s a bad egg. Knew nothing about this website, Jessie, thanks for the URL! Why didn’t the boathouse situation get more exposure? First I’ve heard about it in detail.

I have spoken to many of my neighbors and they are very happyt this event is taking place. There are plenty of people who live near the event who are happy it is hear, who have no problem with the noise, and who will pay to attend it next year.

I again bring up the NIMBY issue. The arguments against this are the very heart of what it is about, literally, not in my backyard. Those of us who support this event in it’s current manifestation will not go away, and are very happy that our current supervisors and Ginsburg don’t appear to be giving any consideration to stopping this event.

Can’t wait for next year. There are tons of people on both sides of the park who are NOT fed up with this event and are grateful to the city for bringing these bands to the park for three days. Thank you Ginsburg for allowing this event to take place in the park, and rest assured there are plenty of us who want the event here!

Dear J:
You have made it abundantly clear in your many postings above that you either do not understand that we live in a democracy and how that is supposed to — and must — work, or else have complete contempt for it. We do not live in a fascist state — or are not supposed to. WE, the RESIDENTS OF SAN FRANCISCO OWN THE PARKS. We pay a huge price for them every year in taxes. We also have an enormously important national (yea, international) treasure at our doorstep that former residents of San Francisco had the foresight and the generosity to create for THE PEOPLE of San Francisco. And hopefully, we feel some responsibility to keep it intact and not have it turned into the equivalent of a commercial concert and athletic venue. That is not what GG park was ever intended to be — and is not what it should be.

Mr. Ginsburg has done many good things in Golden Gate Park and the other parks of our city — alas, he is behaving as though HE is the CEO of a private corporation that owns the parklands of San Francisco.

We all know that you enjoy the concert, “J” — many of us love the live music. But I know at least 4 families with small children who actually MOVE OUT of their homes each year for this event — and do not want to go stay with their in-laws — because the children cannot sleep, etc. And I have hardly canvassed the neighborhood or done an exhaustive survey.

You seem to believe that the city should be able to do this to its residents without consultation, refusing to even meet to discuss the complains. And this is not creating noise and problems that force residents and their young children to vacate. Despite the fact that it is changing the character of this neighborhood in a way that I feel certain will soon start to affect property values. (Families with children moved to the Richmond because it was quiet, safe, and they had access to the Park — this is all changing rapidly…and it is going to become a factor prospective buyers will consider — esp. for people who own property in the blocks nearest to Fulton and Lincoln.)

Moreover, these families are not having to vacate their houses due to noise, etc. because of some unavoidable, one-time situation –such as needing to repairing sewer line. But for a FOR-PROFIT event that occurs every year –with the number of days and hours and also number of events increasing every year.
.

Either you really do not understand what is going on here and the principles at stake — or you are totally unappreciate of what Americans before you worked and fought and died for over a 300+year period to give YOU. (yes, they were fighting for it WAY before 1776…)

If the city gets away with deciding that they can do anything they want with OUR parks — what do you think that tells them? It tells them they can do anything they want to us — and we’ll just lie there and take it.

Just the way you are — giggling and saying “screw me any way you want! Just make sure Phish is playing in the background as you ignore my rights!”

If they closed and fenced off the same are for nine days so that an oil company could have an event that cost $150 a head, I bet you’d be ranting and raving and “that’s OUR land! they can’t do that!”

Democracy means that the law and the principles have to be applied equally — to every group. In every situation . And it’s also something you have to keep an eye on — because it’s very valuable and people are always trying to steal it from you when you’re not looking.

Susan:

I understand clearly how democracy works. What those of you who are opposed to Outside Lands have failed continually to both realize and admit is that just as there are those who live nearby who oppose the event, there are many who live nearby who support it. Many posters here have repeatedly stated this, continually advocating for the continuance of the event in its current form.

No one is saying that you should not have the right to protest, organize, go to meetings or whatever. But please understand that as a resident who lives in the neighborhood and who cares about this event, I will be as vocal as possible in trying to make sure that you do not succeed in shutting it down. After all, it is a democracy. And it is my park just as much as it is yours, just as much as it belongs to everyone in this city.

I disagree that the park should not be turned into a concert hall for three days. Many people agree with me. Many do not. I understand that. Just as you should be able to enjoy the park 362 days out of the year without a concert, it’s reasonable for me and those who agree to be able to enjoy a noisy concert for three days. It’s unfortunate that those families have to move out for three days, but it is unreasonable for them to expect complete peace and quiet in a major city park 365 days of the year. It imply is unreasonable for them to expect that.

As has been pointed out, cities are noisy. Other places in San Francisco can be noisy. If you want peace and quiet all the time, San Francisco is not for you.

In addition, the city uses many public areas on some occasions for private corporate events; I have already pointed out the usage of Union Square as a corporate event space. The city “gets away” with this all the time; the fact is that you have consistently ignored the huge benefits, both financially and to our cities reputation that this brings. It’s all about noise and the rights of the people to enjoy the park.

Well, I am the people.

You are the people. You use the park for what you want most of the time. That’s great.

But I, and those who agree with me, would like the park used for a concert on occasion. That’s reasonable.

You keep talking about your rights. But what about my rights to ave a loud concert in the park? Are you saying your rights to 365 days of quiet supercede my rights to have a loud concert in the park? That’s not fair nor reasonable. So no, I won’t go away, and I am VERY happy this event will continue in its present form.

J:

You keep mentioning “all these posters in support of the concert”… where are they? Clearly 90% of the posts on this blog are against it.

Your argument continues to be getting stale; is it all right for my neighbors next door to shout, throw pots and pans at each other and disturb my life for three days just because we live in a city, and cities are “noisy places?”. Not as far as I’m concerned, and I’d be contacting my landlord about it, as would my neighbors. Why should it be any different for a concert? You also continue to keep leaving out the Hardly Strictly Bluegrass concert, which will be lasting for another 3 1/2 days, as well as other concerts that are scheduled in the park (we even had one last Sunday that tied up all the neighborhood parking when I came home from work and I could hear for much of the day).

Please show me these large numbers who are in support of this and live in the area. So far, all these people you mention don’t seem to have a voice, as far as this blog goes. In fact, it became more than obvious some time ago you were inventing up different names to make the numbers look larger. And frankly, until you live in the epicenter of all the booming bass like I do, I don’t think you really know what you’re talking about!

Dman, you are free to believe as you will; you and others have posted repeatedly, thus making your voice “louder” but there are many single posters up above who have said they don’t have a problem with the noise and live in the area.

If you want to ascribe ulterior motives to me and my posts, by all means do so; it doesn’t change the facts that I am not alone. More importantly, you should understand that you live in a bubble; the people on this board who protest the event don’t represent the people who live in the Mission, Castro or Bayview. They don’t post here because they don’t live in the Richmond. But guess what…it’s their park too. What do you think their opinions are on the noise level of this is? The people I have talked to who live elsewhere in the city have had almost universally the same response when I describe this blog discussion to them:
“Really? Jeez, it’s a city, they should get over it for Pete’s sake. It’s only three days.”

So feel free to contact your “landlord”, who in this case is the city. I have confidence that the city will kindly explain, after hopefully listening to your complaints respectfully, that
1) Cities are noisy.
2) This event brings in a lot of money to the city
3) This event is loved by many people who live in the city but who do not live near the park
4) This event puts us on the map internationally as a city that hosts a world class concert
5) This event brings many people to the neighborhood and the Geary corridor that contribute to the economy and make lots of purchases at local stores and restaurants
6) The corporate sponsor of this event cleans up after the event, at their own expense, and resods the fields

All of which, quite frankly, override the fact that a few neighbors think it’s too loud or too corporate.

Call the arguments stale if you want. Doesn’t make them any less valid. And of course, I like booming bass, so I don’t have a problem with it.

…and on and on and on and on and on…

yep.

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